Bus Services (Deregulation)

HC Deb 09 November 1987 vol 122 cc10-1

9. Mr. Brandon-Bravo

To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what is his latest information on the effect of deregulation on buses.

Mr. David Mitchell

Bus mileage has increased by almost 12 per cent. over the last year, with 85 per cent. of the mileage now operated on a commercial basis; the number of operators has grown; operating costs and subsidies have been reduced; and the private sector has increased its share of the market.

Mr. Brandon-Bravo

I welcome the tone of that response and express pleasure especially at the fact that 85 per cent. of road mileage is now supported on a commercially viable basis, but will my hon. Friend comment on what I might describe as predatory subsidies? He may be aware that some local authorities are inserting a subsidised frequency into what was a commercially viable network, thereby destroying that commercial network. That cannot be the object of the Bill nor in the interests of the public at large. Will he also note——

Mr. Speaker

No. The hon. Gentleman should ask only one question.

Mr. Mitchell

My hon. Friend has, with great perception, highlighted an area that causes some concern. If local authorities have so much money that they can afford to waste it by providing duplicate services with existing commercial services, that is a matter for the Audit Commission.

Mr. Janner

Is the Minister aware of the chaos that has been caused by deregulation and the fact that more buses on the road does not mean that there is more efficiency? Is he further aware that, in effect, deregulation means more buses on profitable routes, but fewer on routes that are unprofitable, leaving people in outlying areas, not only in Leicester, but throughout the country, suffering as a result of that profit-based and awful scheme?

Mr. Mitchell

I am glad that the hon. and learned Gentleman recognises that there are more buses in many of our towns and city centres——

Mr. Janner

Only in the centres.

Mr. Mitchell

I accept what the hon. and learned Gentleman has said, but I am sure that he will not object to my saying yes to his question. In rural areas socially necessary services that are not profitable are provided by subsidy from the county or passenger transport executive concerned. They have saved £40 million in providing such services. If there is an area in which and the hon. and learned Gentleman feels that there is some under provision, perhaps a small percentage of that £40 million could be devoted to putting that right.

Mr. Sackville

Does my hon. Friend agree that the deregulation of buses in Greater Manchester has been a success, but that since the control of a major bus operator, Greater Manchester Buses, has been left with local politicians, who have not the first idea of how to run a bus company, the job has been left half finished? When will he introduce legislation to ensure that management buyouts can take place and control can pass to the employees of municipal bus operators?

Mr. Mitchell

My hon. Friend has referred to the success of bus deregulation in Greater Manchester, and he is right. Greater Manchester Buses has reported that costs per mile have decreased by no less than 23.3 per cent., that miles per employee have increased by up to 23 per cent., that miles per bus have increased by 17 per cent., and that its costs have come tumbling down as a result of improved efficiency. If, on the back of that improved efficiency, there is pressure for a staff buyout, I hope that local politicians will respond to it.

Mr. Snape

Does the Minister accept that over Christmas last year there were no buses in Greater Manchester——

Mr. Sumberg

Or the year before.

Mr. Snape

That is not true.

Mr. Speaker

Order. That was not part of the question.

Mr. Snape

If these interruptions are going to be picked up by Hansard, I hope that for once the hon. Member for Bury, South (Mr. Sumberg) will get his facts right.

Does the Minister accept that there will be no buses in the west midlands on Christmas day and Boxing day this year, that there will be no train services either and that the main beneficiaries of deregulation in and around our major conurbations are likely to be the manufacturers of breathalysers because of the increase in drink-driving problems that will be caused? The hon. Gentleman, like all Conservative Members, knows the price of anything when it comes to deregulation, hut he has never appreciated the value of services in and around our major conurbations.

Mr. Mitchell

I am glad that this time the hon. Gentleman has chosen to sing that tune and not to say how much the bus staff look forward to having the time off over Christmas. The opportunity was there for the Greater Manchester PTE to seek to have services provided over the Christmas holiday period if it wished. It did not make such arrangements, and that is why the services were not provided.