Television Licences (Hansard, 5 November 1987)

§ 12. Mr. Skinner
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will meet representatives of the pensioners associations to discuss television licences; and if he will make a statement.

§ Mr. Renton
On 11 March my hon. and learned Friend the then Minister of State discussed television licences with representatives of Pensioners' Voice, the National Federation of Retirement Pensioners Associations. We have not had a request for a further meeting.

§ Mr. Skinner
Has it ever crossed the mind of the Minister and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State that there is something wrong with a society that allows 13 televisions to be installed in No. 10 Downing street for the Prime Minister with only one licence, and for all the posh hotels to pay only one licence for as many as 600 television sets—

§ Mr. Skinner
And at the same time permits pensioners and disabled people to be thrown into gaol for nonpayment of the licence fee? When requests are made by hon. Members to Tory Ministers to get those people out of gaol, we are told that the Government cannot do anything. Why do the Government not stop that nonsense and let us have free television licences for all pensioners and the disabled?

§ Mr. Renton
The hon. Gentleman's synthetic indignation deserves a statue in Pseuds corner. He knows that 1.4 million households [Interruption].

§ Mr. Skinner
Come on, you little wimp.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I do not hear everything, thank goodness.

§ Mr. Renton
There are 1.4 million households with a television but no licence, and 440,000 households with a colour set but only a monochrome licence. That means that there is a shortage of revenue of about £90 million. If all that money were to be paid it would mean a reduction of £4 in the licence fee for everybody, pensioners and those on low incomes as well.

§ Mr. Andrew MacKay
Can my hon. Friend imagine anything more bizarre than allowing all pensioners to have a free television licence? That would mean that many wealthy pensioners in my constituency would not have to pay for a licence, while many poor families with young children would have to pay. That is a crazy suggestion.

§ Mr. Renton
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Television licences should not be an instrument of social policy, nor is it the wish of most pensioners that they should have a free licence.

§ Mr. Corbett
Does the Minister understand that for many pensioners the television is their main, and in some cases only link with the outside world? In many respects, it is their best friend. Does he accept that the new rise in the television licence fee — which we support —strengthens the case for paying for licences for all pensioners out of taxation?

§ Mr. Renton
Of course I understand that the television is, as the hon. Gentleman said, the best friend for many pensioners. However, the licence fee is being increased by only 7.8 per cent. over three years and that compares with a retail prices index increase over that time of about 12 per cent. and rises in pensions of 15 per cent. Television licences should not be an instrument of social policy, and surely it is much better for the Government to concentrate their efforts, as they have done, on ensuring that all pensions remain ahead of the increase in RPI.