§ 4. Mr. John Carlisleasked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he has any plans to discuss with the football authorities additional measures to combat hooliganism; and if he will make a statement.
§ 22. Mr. Pendryasked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he is scheduled next to meet the football authorities to discuss issues affecting the sport.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Colin Moynihan)I last met them on 19 October. As a result, I shall shortly be meeting, with the Football League, those clubs which have not achieved the minimum 50 per cent. ground capacity level agreed with the authorities in February and have not produced clear police advice that the level which has been achieved is the optimal at present to deter hooliganism.
§ Mr. CarlisleDoes my hon. Friend agree that the behaviour of footballers on the field can also influence the fans on the terraces, and that the intended prosecution of three players in Scotland should be a salutary reminder to all footballers that they must behave more responsibly, or accept the consequences?
§ Mr. MoynihanI cannot comment on the specific case in point, because the matter is to be brought before the procurator fiscal, but generally I strongly deprecate indiscipline and violence on any field of play. Governing bodies in sport have a duty to take tough disciplinary action. No sportsman is above the law, and it is quite right that behaviour at a sporting event should not be immune to the law, either on or off the field of play.
§ Mr. WigleyIn view of the exemplary behaviour of Welsh teams in European competitions, including the European Champions cup and other European cups, has the Minister spoken to officials of the Football League and deplored the decision not to postpone the games this Saturday in which Welsh international players are involved, although a similar postponement is being allowed for those games in which English players are taking part?
§ Mr. MoynihanI have a great deal of sympathy for the Welsh players' request to postpone matches, but the decision is entirely a matter for the Football League. I hope, however, that even at this late stage it will reconsider its decision.
§ Mr. SpeakerI apologise to the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Mr. Pendry) for not having called him next. Mr. Pendry.
§ Mr. PendryIn view of the recent bouts of football hooliganism in many European countries, notably the Netherlands and the Soviet Union, will the Minister assist the Football Association in bringing to the notice of UEFA the, by contrast, much-improved scene at home, so that English football teams can speedily return to European club competitions?
§ Mr. MoynihanAs I am sure the hon. Gentleman will agree, we still have a long way to go, but important steps have been taken. International co-operation to deter hooliganism is essential. That was my main purpose in attending the German-English friendly, where close international police liaison and a comprehensive package of crowd control measures inside the ground were in place. Further liaison through the Trevi group is being achieved by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.
§ Mr. David EvansDoes my hon. Friend agree that the members-only scheme at Luton Town football club has been an unqualified success? In the 1985–86 season there were 102 arrests and four stabbings, and 97 people were dealt with by St. John Ambulance. In the following season there were no arrests, and there have been no arrests this year either. Does my hon. Friend also agree that until the Football Association and the Football League are prepared to introduce a 100 per cent. membership scheme there will be hooliganism both inside and outside football grounds?
§ Mr. MoynihanI applaud Luton's approach. There is compelling police evidence that the circumstances that made it 100 per cent. right for Luton do not apply to every other club, but clear determination and putting an effective package of measures in place can he successful in starting to tackle hooliganism. I particularly congratulate my hon. Friend and his colleagues on the example that they have shown.
§ Mr. ConwayDoes my hon. Friend agree that the curbing of football hooliganism is not simply a matter for the football authorities? The responsible board of Shrewsbury Town football club hosted a match against Middlesbrough, during which 80 fans were arrested and 20 policemen were taken to hospital, and it expects the legal authorities to play their part in combating hooliganism. Will my hon. Friend persuade his Government colleagues to back support for the Magistrates' Association so that meaningful sentences can be passed against those convicted of crimes of violence?
§ Mr. MoynihanI have considerable sympathy with my hon. Friend's point. I shall certainly take up the specific points that he raised with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, and I have no doubt whatsoever that he will pay close attention to them.
§ Ms. WalleyDoes the Minister agree that one of the main ways to curb football hooliganism is to provide facilities to ensure that it can be a family sport? If he is not 921 prepared to do so, will he say why? We should not encourage the sort of hooliganism that we have just witnessed from Tory Members. Does the Minister agree that, in the interests of promoting football as a family sport, we should provide money to the Football Grounds Improvement Trust so that it can give improvement grant-aid of 50 per cent. towards expenditure for work on family enclosures at clubs such as Port Vale FC? Does he agree that these grants should be resumed as one way of curbing hooliganism?
§ Mr. MoynihanImportant benefits can undoubtedly be derived from family and community schemes. As that was the thrust of the point that the hon. Lady was making, I agree that family schemes make an important contribution.
§ Mr. John GreenwayIs my hon. Friend aware that the schemes introduced by York City FC and Scarborough FC are progressing well? Together with the considerable improvements that have been made in ground safety measures and crowd segregation by the police, those schemes ensure that the majority of supporters can watch football in peace and safety. As to the incidents in Scarborough this summer, is it not abundantly clear that even with 100 per cent. participation in membership schemes, those who misbehave and conduct themselves in a violent manner must be banned from grounds? Is it not the role of the courts to ensure that that occurs?
§ Mr. MoynihanAs my hon. Friend knows, exclusion orders are being used this season. Thus, the latter part of his question is answered.
As to the former part, I am concerned that Scarborough FC has not achieved a 50 per cent. ground capacity membership scheme or provided adequate police evidence that the current level of the membership scheme is optimal. For that reason, I and the Football League have called it in.
§ Mr. Denis Howellrose—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Hon. Members seem to be becoming a little excited.
§ Mr. HowellI offer the Minister all-party support for his attack on the discrimination against the selection of Welsh footballers this week. As to the question about further proposals, as I understand it, the Minister is advocating random breath-testing inside football grounds. How much will this cost, who will pay the bill, what is the lawful authority of any steward seeking to breathalyse a supporter, and how practical will it be when 1,000 spectators a minute will be entering the more important grounds 10 minutes before the kick-off?
§ Mr. MoynihanThere is no doubt that drink-related incidents of hooliganism are commonplace. Therefore, the Football League has agreed with the police to inquire into the possibility of stewards inside the ground — therein lies the lawful authority — having breathlysers to test those suspected of excessive drinking. A number of clubs have said that they are willing to enter into such a scheme. It is essential that every possible measure is tried and tested to deter the hooligan.