Pensions

HC Deb 30 June 1987 vol 118 cc359-60

3. Mr. Flannery

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the value in real terms of the basic retirement pension to (a) a single person and (b) a married couple, as a proportion of average earnings, compared with their value after the November 1977 upratings.

The Minister for Social Security and the Disabled (Mr. Nicholas Scott)

The basic retirement pension was 33.8 per cent. of average net male manual earnings in November 1977 and 29.8 per cent. on estimated April 1987 figures. The corresponding figures for a married couple were 50.8 and 45.3 per cent., respectively.

Mr. Flannery

Is it not disgraceful that, at a time when, for instance, managing directors throughout the country are increasing their own salaries at a colossal and almost unprecedented rate and are telling people who want a slight increase not to be greedy, pensioners should be hard put to it to pay standing charges and television licences? Surely the so-called boom that is going on should not allow that to happen. Was not the last increase of 40p a direct, pitiful insult to the pensioners, and is it not time that the Government did something for them?

Mr. Scott

If we are talking about pitiful points, the hon. Gentleman secures first prize. What the Government have done since they were elected is to see that the total income of pensioners as a whole—and that is what matters—has risen twice as fast as the income of the population as a whole. We have given pensioners a share in Britain's rising living standards.

Mr. Dickens

Will my hon. Friend concede that we want no lectures from the Labour party on caring for pensioners? Was it not the Tories who first introduced pensions for the over-80s and who twice restored the Christmas bonus that was snatched away by the Labour Government?

Mr. Scott

Although I am very tolerant, accepting lectures from those who behaved in the way described by my hon. Friend, those who pledged themselves to link pensions to earnings and then failed to fulfil their promises in government, is a bit thick.

Mr. Kennedy

Will the Minister concede that one of the biggest losses to pensioners during the period of this Government has, of course, been the conscious break with uprating in relation to earnings and that that has led to a severe loss of pensioners' puchasing power? Will he at least look at the principle of entering into discussions with the major utilities with a view to trying to abolish standing charges for pensioners?

Mr. Scott

With regard to those utilities, gas and electricity prices have fallen in real terms over the period of this Government. That fall and the general fall in inflation have helped pensioners. A mistake that is often made in these matters is to refer simply to the basic pension rather than to the total income of pensioners as a whole. Our plans and aims for the future mean that we will widen choice and improve opportunities so that people may receive extra help beyond the basic pension.

Mr. Steen

I recognise that the Government have done a great job for pensioners, but does my hon. Friend none the less agree that while he was out on the election trail most hon. Members on both sides of the House must have been struck by and concerned about the level and quality of life of people living on nothing but the state pension? When he considers the uprating of pensions, will he see whether the Government can do something for people with no income other than the one pension? Those people cannot maintain dignity of life simply on the current level of pension.

Mr. Scott

The vast majority of people who receive the basic pension would also be entitled to supplementary benefit and full housing cost benefit. They would also receive help with heating additions, insulation grants and a passport to a free Health Service. It is the duty of all hon. Members to encourage those people receiving the basic pension to ensure that they receive all the benefits to which they are entitled.

Mrs. Beckett

I welcome the Minister to this particular bed of nails. I sympathise with him, because he obviously has not been with the Department long enough to know just how dubious are some of the facts that he has been fed. The total income of pensioners has risen only as a reflection of the scheme introduced by the previous Labour Government, which the present Government have just emasculated. The figures that the Minister has given show that under this Government the standard of living of a pensioner couple has fallen by 5 per cent., and that rather more reflects reality. How many pensioners do the Government predict will he on income support by the end of the century?

Mr. Scott

This will depend on the levels of income support and how they move. Incidentally, I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her generous welcome. I note that she is fresh from the hustings. I regard this, not as a bed of nails, but as an opportunity to ensure that the vast sums of money that the Government spend and are continuing to spend on social security are targeted increasingly on those most in need.

Mr. Fallon

Does my hon. Friend recall that at the hustings the majority of pensioners rejected Labour's fake fiver? Does he accept that pensioners understand better than any other group in society the hyper-inflation that would follow from any kind of proposed linkage?

Mr. Scott

The electorate saw through the blank cheque offered by Labour Members, not least noting the divisions between the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher) and his hon. Friend the Member for Dagenham (Mr. Gould).