HC Deb 21 July 1987 vol 120 cc189-91
1. Mr. Andrew F. Bennett

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what proportion of people gain a job on leaving YTS, JTS and the community programme.

The Secretary of State for Employment (Mr. Norman Fowler)

The latest complete figures show that of those young people who left YTS, some 61 per cent. were in employment three months after leaving and a further 14 per cent. went into further education or training. Information for those leaving the new job training scheme is not yet available. The latest survey of those leaving the community programme shows that some 60 per cent. have had at least one job within 12 months of leaving.

Mr. Bennett

In view of those extremely disappointing figures, does the Minister accept that the major scandal in this country at the moment is the skills shortage, which contrasts with the very large numbers of people who are unemployed? As YTS was in many cases used as an inefficient substitute for the old apprenticeship scheme, should we not be looking for 100 per cent. of people leaving YTS getting jobs? What will the Minister do to match the chronic skill shortages with the appalling level of unemployment, particularly among young people?

Mr. Fowler

The hon. Gentleman knows that we are developing programmes for YTS and JTS. With regard to the success of the schemes, the figures show that very substantial numbers of people coming off YTS, job training schemes and the community programme are going into employment. I would have thought that the hon. Gentleman would welcome that.

Mr. Andrew MacKay

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and that in my constituency and elsewhere young people are taking up YTS with great enthusiasm and reporting on their success? That means that at last they have an option other than to join the dole queue. Does that not contrast with the position under the previous Labour Government, when there were very few proper training schemes? It ill behoves Opposition Members to complain about YTS.

Mr. Fowler

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. We have now reached the position where everyone has the opportunity of a YTS place. That is a major step forward that is welcomed by the public.

Mr. Leighton

Is it not the case that very few people could have obtained jobs after leaving JTS because so few people have gone on that scheme? Is it not also the case that that ill thought out plan has flopped badly and is monumentally unpopular with employers and its potential clients?

Mr. Fowler

No, I do not think that that is remotely the case. It is very sad that the TUC is not supporting the scheme. Under the old JTS, 67 per cent. went into jobs. The results for the new JTS are not yet available. However, the new JTS offers opportunities to unemployed people and I believe that the mass of the public. if not the TUC, will support the scheme.

Mr. Waller

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the cause of young people who would particularly benefit from the youth training scheme is not helped by the fact that the scheme is continually attacked by opponents of the Government? Will he ensure that it is widely known that the people who really matter — the young people themselves — have shown very clearly in surveys that they think that the training that they have received is good?

Mr. Fowler

My hon. Friend is right. All the surveys carried out by the MSC into the effectiveness of the YTS show that those who have had experience of it, as opposed to those who give their views on it, are overwhelmingly satisfied with their training and experience.

Mr. Meacher

Is not the recent Public Account's Committee's report a devastating indictment of the Government's training policies? How can the Government fill training gaps when they have abolished their main source of information on training by employers? What enforcement do the Government propose to ensure that employers carry out their training responsibilities? Above all, will the Government now repudiate their political motive in extending the JTS before the problems associated with the pilot scheme are fully resolved?

Mr. Fowler

May I first welcome my eternal shadow to his new Front-Bench job for employment. I regret that he is as way off the mark on employment as he was on the Health Service. The JTS pilot started only last autumn. The JTS is designed to provide not only good training but training leading to good vocational qualifications. The hon. Gentleman would he better employed trying to persuade the TUC to change its attitude to this scheme, which provides a tremendous opportunity for many people.

Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

Will my right hon. Friend consider the position of the community programme, especially for those over 50? Although the community programme gives them the opportunity to make a valuable contribution to society, the probability is that, when it ends, they will become unemployed and will remain unemployed. In those circumstances, has my right hon. Friend any plans for extending the community programme?

Mr. Fowler

As my hon. Friend knows, we have plans under the community programme to give help and training to those who have been continuously unemployed for 12 months. I should like to look more carefully at the position of the over-50s — the precise point raised by my hon. Friend. I agree with his general points.