HC Deb 06 July 1987 vol 119 cc8-9
6. Mr. Thomas

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many housing starts were made in the public sector in Wales in the last year for which figures are available; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Grist

In the year up to March 1987, 1,227 dwellings were started in the public sector.

Mr. Thomas

First, may I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his ministerial office. It is a great privilege to see a Member representing a Welsh constituency promoted to the Welsh Office. May I also commiserate with the hon. Member for Conwy (Mr. Roberts). At a later date I would be extremely interested to ascertain whether the hon. Gentleman is still of the view that he held before the appointment of his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, that the Secretary of State for Wales should represent a Welsh constituency. Will the Minister tell us what the proposals will be to bring back housing starts in the public sector in Wales to the levels that they were pre-1979?

Mr. Grist

I think that the hon. Gentleman has slightly misunderstood the situation. One of the first things that the Government decided to do, largely with the agreement of the loccal authorities, was to safeguard the housing stock that we already had. To that end, we have enormously increased expenditure on house renovations and repairs. Indeed, the increase under the Government has been about 430 per cent., which has been mainly in the private sector, but also in the public sector, an area that was largely neglected by the Labour party.

Mr. Raffan

I, too, welcome my hon. Friend to his new appointment. Does he agree, as is widely accepted in my constituency, as in many others in Wales, that there is a surplus of housing? The Government are absolutely right to concentrate their emphasis on the improvement of the quality of existing housing rather than on building new housing. Does my hon. Friend accept that that is the core of our housing policy and that it is correctly directed within the Principality?

Mr. Grist

Indeed, I do, because of the age of our housing stock, which has made that a requisite.

Mr. Rowlands

Is the Miniser aware that in many of our communities people now wait for repair and improvement grants — the very improvements that the Government boast about — for three to four years? Irrespective of what happened previously, when will the hon. Gentleman be able to assist the large numbers of people who are now waiting, not for one or two years, but for three or four years for those vital repairs and improvements?

Mr. Grist

To put it into perspective, the repair grants on private housing under the Government have come to over £400 million as opposed to some £57 million under the Labour party, and £328 million in the public sector compared with just £86 million under the Labour party. That is bringing help to the people in a true fashion.

Mr. John

Does the Minister accept that the measure of need is the waiting list for public housing in each local authority? If he does, does he further accept that in my local authority 3,000 are waiting and, at the rate of 1,200 per year being housed in the whole of Wales, it will take a very long time for that need to be satisfied?

Mr. Grist

The hon. Gentleman always shows up what his party seems to think about the citizenry of the country. He always thinks in terms of council housing. I remind the Labour party that the Welsh Office was largely responsible for introducing private money into housing association schemes, and that on the basis of such schemes submitted so far to the Housing Corporation, another 800 homes for rent may be achieved next year, through partnership schemes such as at St. Mellons in Cardiff.

Mr. Gwilym Jones

Will my hon. Friend reject the notion that the only way forward in housing is with local councils when a substantial volume of accommodation is grossly under-used because of excessive rent and tenancy legislation?

Mr. Grist

I do, indeed. That is precisely why we put forward the various proposals in the Gracious Speech.

Mr. Roy Hughes

I also welcome the hon. Gentleman to his position. To me, he is the living embodiment of life after death. When will he recognise the severe housing crisis from which Wales suffers? Does he appreciate that the Government's record, particularly in the public sector, is appalling? When will we get the housing drive that would make so much social and economic sense for Wales?

Mr. Grist

Housing association completions do not satisfy the hon. Gentleman. Enveloping schemes do not satisfy him. Is that not a drive? We are involving private money in housing associations. Does that not not satisfy him? For the fifth year running there has been an increase in private house building in Wales. Does that not satisfy him? There is a record spend on renovating and saving our housing stock. Does that not satisfy him? If it does not, nothing will.