HC Deb 20 January 1987 vol 108 cc728-9
7. Mr. Flannery

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many representations he has received from local education authorities wishing to introduce a tertiary level of education.

Mr. Dunn

My right hon. Friend is currently considering four proposals under section 12 of the Education Act 1980 which involve the introduction of tertiary education.

Mr. Flannery

Does the Minister realise that all over the country there will be demands for tertiary education, which is a natural follow-on, indeed a national follow-on, from comprehensive education?—[Interruption.] For the benefit of those shouting, the Minister told me the other day, on the delegation, that the demand for tertiary education was begun by a group of Tories.

When Sheffield submitted a plan for the provision of tertiary education quite a long time ago why, if not for electoral reasons, was permission given for that provision in only five constituencies out of six and the sixth constituency—which was Tory controlled—was excluded? In heaven's name, why stop those children in the Hallam constituency from having the benefits of tertiary education?

Mr. Dunn

That is a wicked and unfair accusation. The schools in south-west Sheffield were excluded from the Secretary of State's approval of the proposals for the rest of Sheffield because that area contained a number of schools which had good and successful sixth forms and because there were substantial opposition to those proposals in the south-west area.

Dr. Hampson

Will my hon. Friend reassure parents in Leeds, where a dogmatic councillor has assumed the role of chief education officer, that he does not expect them to submit to a tertiary scheme universally applied across the city and that there is worth in maintaining a mixed system which retains schools that have sixth forms of proven worth?

Mr. Dunn

Whatever comes out of the city of Leeds, I can assure my hon. Friend that the proposals will be considered fairly and squarely, and on their merits. In the light of the answer that I have just given in respect of the city of Sheffield, any school of proven worth must make the strongest representations to us under the law.

Mr. Merlyn Rees

Will the Minister confirm that his Department approves of tertiary education in principle and that circulars have said that this form of education is one way of dealing with a very real problem, namely, the surplus of school places? In this respect, is it not disturbing that in the case of the borough of Harrow, which is Conservative controlled and had very good grammar schools, when the Prime Minister was Secretary of State for Education and Science schools of excellence were shut down without a murmur and turned into sixth form colleges and are now becoming tertiary colleges, yet in the city of Leeds, when the same scheme is put forward, people say that it is politically motivated? It means that we are not getting the right discussion of real problems. It is not right to dimish these.

Mr. Dunn

Proposals come to us under section 12 of the 1980 Act for a variety of reasons, including the elimination of surplus places. I assure the right hon. Member for Morley and Leeds, South (Mr. Rees) that when the proposals come to us each set is considered on their merits and in the context of the educational provision for the area that they serve.

Sir John Page

Is my hon. Friend aware that the right hon. Member for Morley and Leeds, South (Mr. Rees), who was my most distinguished constituent at one time, is only emphasising the valuable point that decisions on matters such as these should be left to the properly elected local authority?

Mr. Dunn

I should like to point out that we on this side of the House are totally opposed to a commitment that would enforce tertiary provision on all local education authorities. How local education authorities make proposals, and why they make them, is a matter for them. We have a duty under the law to consider each set of proposals on their individual merits.