AIDS (Hansard, 11 February 1987)

§ 4. Mrs. McCurley
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps have been taken to ensure that all necessary provisions have been made to assist the Scottish medical profession in its assessment and containment of AIDS.

§ Mr. Rifkind
In addition to the issue of extensive guidance to doctors, dentists and nurses about the disease, the Government have to date allocated £1.4 million centrally to fund measures to control the spread of AIDS in Scotland.

§ Mrs. McCurley
May I congratulate my right hon. and learned Friend on that reply and on the excellent booklet that has been produced for educational establishments in Scotland to be used mainly by teachers? Is it possible that in the future a similar booklet may be produced for young people within these establishments to be distributed and discussed within those establishments?

§ Mr. Rifkind
The guidance booklet that we issued last week essentially dealt with the need for a range of sensible, hygienic precautions in schools to stop AIDS being passed on accidentally. My colleagues and I will be issuing in a few weeks time a question and answer leaflet on AIDS for teachers to use in response to children's questions. Schools have a positive role to play in that respect, and we have asked bodies such as the Consultative Committee on the Curriculum and the Scottish Health Education Group to consider what further guidance and materials should be provided.

§ Mr. Robert Hughes
Is the Secretary of State aware that, as a result of the University Grants Committee's reductions at Aberdeen university, the department of microbiology is to lose clinical and teaching staff and that, combined with the difficulties in the Grampian health board, laboratory staff will be seriously reduced, with repercussions not only for the AIDS programme but for research into meningitis? How does the Secretary of State justify that?

§ Mr. Rifkind
The hon. Gentleman is well aware that I have no departmental responsibility for the University Grants Committee, therefore I shall confine myself to the specific point about research on AIDS in Scotland. The Scottish Office is providing just under £250,000 for research on AIDS in Scotland. Other research proposals have been put forward to the Government, which will be considered in due course.

§ Mr. Wilson
With regard to the need to contain AIDS, will the Secretary of State explain why it has taken so long to inaugurate the proposed needle exchange system? Is it the case that it is not due to come into effect until April, and thus about three to four months will elapse, with the danger of AIDS being spread by contaminated needles continuing?

§ Mr. Rifkind
On 18 December we announced our intention to set up small-scale trials under medical supervision, including the counselling of drug misusers and the exchange of clean for used equipment on a onefor-one basis. That requires close co-operation with the medical profession and others in the three likely localities of Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dundee. That cannot be arranged overnight. We are equally anxious to ensure that the trials begin at the earliest possible date. It seems likely that April will be the commencement date, but that will depend on the conclusion of the detailed discussions with the medical profession and others who will be involved in the trials.

Mr. Ron Brown
Young Tories in Scotland have called for brothels to be taken into public ownership to curb the spread of AIDS and improve health standards. Will the Secretary of State accept that nationalisation is of more benefit to the community than privatisation?

§ Mr. Rifkind
We have no early intention of taking brothels or any other comparable establishments into public ownership. I recall that it was once remarked that Socialists disapprove of sin because it is a form of private enterprise.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
I hope the Secretary of State will bear in mind, when considering the pilot projects on free exchange of needles, the case that can be made for needles to be issued free to diabetics. May I use that as an example of the need for an advisory committee at central level to co-ordinate some of these difficult questions? I accept that the Government will have to confront everything, including troops returning from the Horn of Africa, and the difficulties that they create locally, when they return. I was questioned in my own constituency about when the Minister asked me whether I thought he should advise people who were proposing to get married in church to take AIDS tests beforehand. Does he accept that these questions need some strategic overall view by a central advisory committee?

§ Mr. Rifkind
We must try to ensure that we respond to this serious problem in a serious and responsible fashion. Some somewhat exotic suggestions about how the problem can be dealt with have often been made, but we are trying to identify ways in which the Government and the community can make a meaningful contribution to reducing the incidence of this serious disease.
The existing arrangements for diabetics provide for prescription of reusable syringes by general practitioners under the National Health Service. Although diabetics might find it more convenient to use disposable syringes, it would be difficult to justify the substantial additional cost to the NHS of general provision of disposable needles for all insulin using diabetics.
As for drug users, we are at the moment talking only about certain trial tests. We shall have to wait to see the outcome of those tests before deciding what general policy might be appropriate.

§ Mr. Maxton
Is the Secretary of State aware that there will be considerable anger among diabetics in Scotland as a result of that answer? May we have an assurance that none of the money that is being used for the advertising campaign on AIDS will come from the Scottish health education group's budget and thus damage its excellent work? May we also be assured that the increased number of hospital places and the doctors and nursing staff required to deal with AIDS as its incidence increases will be paid for by extra money from the Government and not represent a burden on the health boards?

§ Mr. Rifkind
From the hon. Gentleman's original comment, one would have thought that there were no diabetics before 1979. He should be reminded that the Labour Government saw no need to provide free syringes to diabetics, so it is somewhat hypocritical for him to suggest that there has been a fundamental change.
The money that we give for research projects on AIDS is in addition to a further £250,000 to assist the publicity campaign by the Scottish Health Education Group. We have also appointed a working group under the general manager of Lothian health board to advise on methods of caring for those who might be found to suffer from AIDS. I understand that that working group is to report fairly soon.