HC Deb 10 February 1987 vol 110 cc152-3
10. Mr. Pavitt

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when last the Minister for Health met Mr. Trevor Clay, the general secretary of the Royal College of Nursing; and what subjects were discussed.

Mr. Newton

I last met the general secretary of the Royal College of Nursing on 19 January as part of a series of informal meetings with the general secretaries of the professional nursing organisations. A very wide range of issues relating to the nursing profession were discussed.

Mr. Pavitt

Now that the Minister has had a chance to study "Project 2000" from the United Kingdom Central Council for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visitors, what action is he going to take, and when? In view of the shortage now occurring—in England last year 27,000 nurses left but only 22,000 trainee places were provided, making a shortfall of 5,000—will he, before ever again giving the figure of 73,000 more nurses in the NHS under his Government's regime, take out the untrained auxiliaries who are now counted in the total, and will he also deduct the difference between the 374½-hour week and the 40-hour week?

Mr. Newton

The hon. Gentleman will know that we normally seek to give these figures as whole-time equivalents, which is the most realistic way to do it. On his main point, as he knows, I, as well as all the other Health Ministers, received "Project 2000" from the United Kingdom Central Council last week. I undertook as a matter of urgency to seek to produce a document around the end of this month on the basis of which we would consult health authorities and others about the proposals with a view to setting a deadline for consultation to finish about the end of July. I think the council recognises that that is a speedy time scale which illustrates the importance we attach to the issue.

Mr. McCrindle

As my hon. Friend seeks to ensure that the net intake of nurses remains adequate for the purposes of the National Health Service, to what extent is consideration being given to stepping up the recruitment of those whose family responsibilities may well be reaching a conclusion and who would welcome the opportunity of being reabsorbed into the National Health Service?

Mr. Newton

That is precisely one of the courses that we are urging health authorities to consider. As my hon. Friend will know, we have also set up, with the Equal Opportunities Commission, a special study known in the trade as managing the career break, which is designed to see how we can build up procedures which make it easier for people to come back to nursing in future.

Mr. Simon Hughes

Does the Minister accept, and did he say to the general secretary of the Royal College, that nursing in London is in crisis? Of four district authorities, Riverside has over 600 vacancies, Bloomsbury and Paddington have 200 and 300 respectively, and my own authority, Lewisham and North Southwark, has over 300. Urgent action is needed. Agency nurses are not enough. What will the Minister do this year to make sure that there are enough nursing staff in London hospitals?

Mr. Newton

The problem varies from one authority to another. We are urgently seeking better information with a view to judging what action can be taken by district health authorities. It will not, I think, be the same in all cases.

Mr. Forman

I welcome warmly the action that the Government have taken in support of the nursing profession. Nevertheless, does my hon. Friend accept that there is a severe problem of nurse wastage in the London area? Does he further accept that a contributory factor may well be the differential housing and transport costs for young nurses in London? Will he consider this again?

Mr. Newton

My hon. Friend will be aware that the pay review body is in operation, as it were, at this very moment. I have no doubt that this is one of the points to which its attention is being and will be drawn.

Mr. Tony Lloyd

Will the Minister take the opportunity to talk to Trevor Clay about the position in south Manchester, where the occupational health physician reported that there has been a massive increase in nervous debility caused by stress because of the staffing crisis for nurses?

Mr. Newton

I am not aware of the study to which the hon. Member has referred, but I shall ask to see it.