§ 5. Mr. Kennedyasked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement outlining his Department's policy and level of per capita support for the promotion of the Welsh language.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Wyn Roberts)My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State outlined the Government's policy in his speech to representatives of Gwynedd county council on 15 April 1980, a copy of which is in the Library. Direct Government expenditure on the Welsh language in 1986–87 for each Welsh-speaking resident aged three years and over is expected to be £6.42. That does not include approximately £14 million spent by local education authorities on Welsh medium and bilingual education or support amounting to some £34 million for S4C.
§ Mr. KennedyI am grateful to the Minister for that detailed reply, and I apologise to Welsh Members for trespassing. My interest is simply this. How much interdepartmental contact do Welsh Office officials dealing with the promotion of the Welsh language and culture have with their opposite numbers in the Scottish Office? I do not know the outturn for those figures in Wales, but there is a strong feeling in Scotland that the Welsh are doing considerably better than the Gaels with regard to expenditure. Any nudges that the Minister's officials could give to the Scottish Office would be appreciated.
§ Mr. RobertsWith regard to expenditure on the promotion of the Gaelic language, I suggest that the hon. Gentleman addresses a question to my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland. In the meantime, perhaps he would care to look at the reply given by my right hon. and learned Friend in July last year to the right hon. Member for Western Isles (Mr. Stewart).
§ Mr. ForthDoes my hon. Friend agree that, despite all that expenditure, the use of the Welsh language declines inexorably year on year? Does he therefore agree that the use of minority languages, whether Welsh, Gaelic or Gujarati, is a divisive rather than a uniting factor and that any such expenditure should be seriously reviewed?
§ Mr. RobertsI am sorry that my hon. Friend takes that view. We do not accept the inexorable decline of the Welsh language. In fact, we are doing everything possible to promote the Welsh language. It is the oldest language still spoken in the United Kingdom, and I think that most. hon. Members on both sides of the House will agree with the Government's policy of promoting its survival.
§ Mr. WigleyIn view of the consultation about a new Welsh language Act which the Minister's Department has launched with a number of bodies in Wales, will he give an assurance that his announcement to the press in the past two weeks about the slowness of the response coming to hand is not a ploy by the Welsh Office to delay the reviewing of that response beyond 31 March? Will he undertake to produce a White Paper on the Government's intentions shortly after the conclusion of the consultation?
§ Mr. RobertsThe hon . Gentleman is aware that we allowed six months for the consultation period. He is also aware that I was concerned that only 10 per cent. of the bodies to which we sent consultation papers had replied by a week or so ago. Eight weeks remain until the end of the consultation period. That was the purpose of my press announcement. With regard to the hon. Gentleman's request for a White Paper, we must obviously consider the replies that we receive and consult within Government.
§ Mr. RogersWill the Minister repeat the figures of support? Did he say that it was £6.35 per Welsh-speaking person in Wales? If so, what is the significance of relating that amount to Welsh-speaking people? Surely if we are to develop the Welsh language, to which the Minister says he is committed, the amount of money spent in the English-speaking areas must be significant. Will the Minister elaborate on that peculiar relationship?
§ Mr. RobertsThe amount that I specified as being spent per Welsh-speaking resident aged three years and over was £6.42. Obviously, that is derived from a totality of figures. It will not be beyond the wit of the hon. Gentleman to divide the total spent on the total population of Wales to discover how much is spent by the Government per person in Wales.
§ Mr. BestHow does my hon. Friend believe that the promotion of the Welsh language will be assisted by the most regrettable decision of Cymdeithas yr faith, the Welsh Language Society—
§ Mr. WigleySmear! Smear!
§ Mr. BestMy hon. Friend the Minister will draw his own conclusions from the fact that the cry of "Smear" came from the hon. Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley). How does my hon. Friend believe that it will assist the 7 Welsh language for Cymdeithas yr Iaith, the Welsh Language Society, to make this most regrettable invitation to Sinn Fein to visit Wales? Surely that should be condemned by everyone.
§ Mr. RobertsI do not think that it will help at all. I was glad to hear my hon. Friend's remarks and to read that the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Thomas), as president of Plaid Cymru, has also condemned the visit. With regard to the Gaelic language as spoken in the Republic, it was compulsory in education until 1974, when the compulsion was abolished. I can only warn members of Cymdeithas yr laith that in the words of Swift:
Ill company is like a dog, who dirts those most whom he loves best".
§ Mr. Barry JonesThe hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Forth), caused offence by his ignorant intervention. Is not the consensus in Wales that we all want the language to prosper? Does the Minister believe, as we do, that there should be a new Welsh Language Act.
§ Mr. RobertsIt is easy to call for a new Welsh Language Act without giving substantial reasons for it. That is why we are consulting the public. We hope to achieve substantive views from the consultation as to whether a change is necessary, and why. I am glad that the hon. Gentleman supports the Welsh language. He will be interested to know that the equivalent figure of support given by the Labour Government in their last year of office was £1.35 per Welsh-speaking person.