HC Deb 28 October 1986 vol 103 cc149-52
3. Mr. Terry Davis

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received on the report of Her Majesty's Inspectorate with regard to the standard of maintenance of school buildings.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received on the report of Her Majesty's Inspectorate with regard to the standard of maintenance of school buildings.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Bob Dunn)

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has received no representations specifically on HMI's findings, but has discussed the repair and maintenance of schools in meetings with the local authority associations and in the National Economic Development Council.

Mr. Davis

But how many representations does the Secretary of State need? Is it not enough to receive a report from Her Majesty's inspectors, who say that one fifth of all lessons in primary and secondary school are being adversely affected by being held in unsuitable and unsatisfactory accommodation, that the situation is getting worse, and that that is putting an unfair burden on teachers such as the staff at Gossey Lane school in Birmingham, who told me that they take a calculated risk of a child being seriously injured whenever they take a PE class in inadequate accommodation? In the face of such facts, in not the Minister's complacency verging on criminal negligence?

Mr. Dunn

I have to tell the hon. Gentleman, who has used unusually intemperate language in the House today, that I share the concern expressed by HMI, but I remind Opposition Members that the poor physical state of many school buildings has not suddenly occurred in the past 10 days. It is not a new event. It springs from the gradual effects of 20 years of neglect, and Opposition parties must take their fair share of responsibility for the present position.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

Is the Minister aware that capital allocations to the county of Cumbria are so low that the education service in parts of the county is now at the point of collapse? Is he aware that buildings are leaking, teachers are complaining, and that parents resent the Government and object to the cuts? Does the hon. Gentleman realise that secondary organisation in my constituency is being threatened by the inadequacy of buildings? Why does he not do something? Why does the Secretary of State not win an argument in Cabinet and get some more money for education so that we can have a decent system throughout the country, particularly in my constituency?

Mr. Dunn

We are concerned here with good housekeeping and planned maintenance programmes. Some local education authorities chose in the past not to follow such programmes, and I am sorry to say that the authorities which chose not do so are now reaping the consequences of their past inactivity.

Mr. Allan Howarth

Does my hon. Friend agree that some rather wasteful administrative procedures are in use for the maintenance of school buildings? Does he agree, for example, that when a boy or girl kicks a football through a window, if the head teacher were allowed to send a caretaker to the DIY shop and get him to mend the window on the spot, rather than have to wait for the arrival of the accredited team of window repairers from the local education authority offices, our schools would be better maintained, at appreciably lower costs?

Mr. Dunn

My hon. Friend's question only reinforces my view that we were entirely right to include in the Education Bill that has jut left the House a degree of local financial management. Of course, local education authorities are free to build upon that and delegate much more than we require of them in law.

Mr. Lilley

Is my hon. Friend aware of the fine example set by the parents and staff of St. George's school, Harpenden in that respect, as they are half way through a five-year voluntary programme of repainting their own school? Did my hon. Friend read the article in The Times Educational Supplement praising them for that and saying that as well as releasing resources for a lower pupil-teacher ratio and better equipment, it had a marvellous impact on morale and the involvement of parents in the school?

Mr. Dunn

My hon. Friend should extend to the parents of children at the school that he mentioned our thanks for being so forward looking and enterprising in what they have done. If the school cares to invite me to visit it, I shall have great pleasure in accepting such an invitation.

Mr. Flannery

Is the Minister implying that if we reorganised the schools and had the caretaker telling the man next door to do repairs, suddenly the crumbling buildings — the Minister's predecessor said that in Sheffield they were "crummy", for instance — would come to life and be done up properly? Is it not a fact that the Government do not provide enough money to make the schools habitable? If the money is not forthcoming, the half million unemployed building workers who are ready to do the work will not be able to do it? Are not the Government helping private education while the schools of 90 per cent. of our children are going to ruin?

Mr. Dunn

The hon. Gentleman occupies his own special time warp and does not understand what is happening in the education service. All our policies are designed to make sure that we get value for money from our schools. I dare say that because of that he supports our policy on local financial management.

Mr. Hill

Does my hon. Friend agree that the difficulty about some of the priorities on repairs and maintenance can quite often mean that a school is overlooked? In my constituency the Millbrook comprehensive school has been overlooked for several years. The outbuildings are made of wood and are rotting. There are Acrows supporting the beams in the classrooms and children have to walk around them to be taught. Perhaps that is one case my hon. Friend will examine to see whether he can bring that school back into an active programme of repair and maintenance.

Mr. Dunn

I congratulate my hon. Friend on making such effective representations on behalf of his constituents. If he cares to write to me about the case I shall inquire into it.

Mr. Andrew F. Bennett

Can the Minister tell us of any local authority that he has visited that has not pressed him for more resources to repair existing schools? Can he tell us of any local authority that he has visited that is not desperate to replace old schools with new ones? Is it not obscene that when the Government get a little bit of extra money they spend it on city technology colleges rather than on desperately needed repairs to and replacement of schools? Surely the Government ought to be putting resources into state schools and not adopting this D-I-Y approach to school building.

Mr. Dunn

We spend over £500 million a year on capital projects and many millions more on repair and maintenance. I object to the hon. Member implying that all the faults in our school stock have arisen in recent months. They have not. I recently visited schools where problems have existed for more than two decades. Those problems did not arise recently.