HC Deb 22 October 1986 vol 102 cc1155-6
8. Mr. David Marshall

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he last met the general council of the Scottish Trades Union Congress; what subjects were discussed; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Rifkind

I last met members of the General Council of the Scottish Trades Union Congress on 20 June. Subjects discussed included shipbuilding, the steel and coal industries and the British Rail Engineering Ltd. workshops at Springburn.

Mr. Marshall

In view of that reply, does the Secretary of State intend to meet the STUC again in the near future, and will he then discuss the findings and recommendations of the Main committee report on teachers' pay and conditions of service? Will he make a statement to the House now as to his intentions regarding the cost of implementing that report?

Mr. Rifkind

I have not received any further request from the STUC for such a meeting. With regard to the Main inquiry, the Government, the Education Institute of Scotland and others involved in educational matters are giving serious and deep consideration to all the recommendations of the Main report. The EIS, as the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, has not come to any conclusion on these matters and neither have the Government. However, as soon as we are in a position to indicate our findings we shall make a statement to the House.

Mr. Pollock

When my right hon. and learned Friend next meets the general council, will he draw its attention to the highly successful job creation work of local enterprise trusts? Is he aware that last Monday at the annual general meeting of the Moray local enterprise trust it was announced that several jobs had been created or saved? [Interruption.] A significant number of jobs in the Moray area were saved or created at the remarkably low figure of £124 per job. In the light of that, will my right hon. and learned Friend ensure that the Scottish Development Agency can continue to give full funding assistance, as it has done in the past year, of some £15,000 towards that excellent work?

Mr. Rifkind

The enterprise trusts are yet another initiative by the Government to help employment prospects and to achieve maximum co-operation between local business men and others. I pay tribute to what has already been achieved in that area.

Mr. Steel

How will the Secretary of State explain to the STUC that the Government are unable to give it a forecast of unemployment in Scotland and are unable to give the House such a forecast but are able to tell the European Commission that the Government's estimate is 3311,000 in the year 1990? Is that to be regarded as lining on the begging bowl, or is it a real estimate?

Mr. Rifkind

If the right hon. Gentleman had read the report rather than a press release he would have seen that it makes it clear that the Government are making no forecast about employment, because we follow the same practice as previous Labour Governments and never make forecasts of that kind.

Mr. Dewar

I accept the Secretary of State's point about the need to look carefully at the Main recommendations. We all agree that the teachers, as well as the Government, must look at the package as a whole. We certainly do not want a rushed decision perhaps turning on one or two of the more complicated elements in an interlocking and important package. However, will the Secretary of State accept that the Government have their part to play? is it not essential that the Government make it clear at an early stage that they will be prepared to fund their share of any settlement that is reached on the basis of Main and that they will also be prepared to look constructively and positively at the other parts of the Main package that require funding of staffing levels, which are set out or referred to in the Main proposals? Is it not also important that the Secretary of State makes it clear that local authorities, which will no doubt have to bear some part of the burden, should not find themselves caught under the guideline provision and paying penalties for honouring an agreement that may be reached on the basis of the report? Does he not accept that it is essential that teachers know where the Government stand, because that must be an important factor when they come to strike the final balance?

Mr. Rifkind

I have not the slightest doubt that the members of the EIS and other teachers' unions will need to know the Government's views on the recommendations of the Main report when they come to a conclusion on this matter.

The Main inquiry must be studied by the Government, local authorities and teachers, because the public and parents in Scotland attach great importance to the outcome being sensible and reasonable in terms of education in Scotland as well as being acceptable in relation to the overall issues.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. May I say that there is a later question on this matter, and I am trying to get there.