HC Deb 03 November 1986 vol 103 cc673-5
11. Mr. Richard Page

asked the Secretary of State for Transport what assessment he has made of the relative safety performance of the United Kingdom's airports compared with that of other European countries.

Mr. Michael Spicer

The Civil Aviation Authority has the statutory operational responsibility for safety at airports in the United Kingdom. I do not have comparative data about airports elsewhere in Europe.

Mr. Page

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Given that a couple of civilian aircraft have been playing leapfrog in the skies over one of our major airports, has he had talks or meetings with the chairman of the CAA to see what can be done to reassure the public about the safety of our airports and airlines?

Mr. Spicer

Yes, I have discussed this matter with the chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority, who naturally shares my concern about this matter. He has asked me to inform the House that he would welcome meetings with interested Members of Parliament to discuss the details of air traffic control procedures. One risk-bearing air miss is one too many, but it is worth remembering that the air miss to which my hon. Friend referred is the first of its kind over London in the past 10 years, during which period there have been 2½ million movements at Heathrow alone, let alone Gatwick, Luton and Stansted.

Mr. Alfred Morris

When can we expect a further ministerial statement about the lessons that have been learnt from all the inquiries into the traffic accident to the Boeing 737 at Manchester international airport on 22 August 1985?

Mr. Spicer

I am unable to make a definitive statement to the House. All the very detailed investigations that are currently being undertaken have yet to be finalised.

Mr. Maclean

My hon. Friend will know that one of the most important safety aspects at airports is security and the prevention of terrorist threats. Will he comment on how good British airports are in this respect as compared with European airports?

Mr. Spicer

Although it is not strictly a safety matter, security is equally of great importance, and the standard of security at British airports is the highest in the world. Many figures could be used to support that statement For instance, a bomb has never been placed on an aircraft that has left a British airport, nor has there even been a hijack.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

In so far as it has been alleged that an aircraft controller carrying out his duties was actually interrupted during the course of his work and that that may have been a contributory factor to the most recent incident, surely an emergency change in procedure is required. Does the Minister agree that it is not just a matter of the Civil Aviation Authority talking about coming to Parliament and discussing the matter with Members of Parliament, but that rapid action needs to be taken in case there is a similar incident in the future?

Mr. Spicer

The CAA is looking urgently at the proposition that there was some distraction, although it is not clear that distraction was the cause of the incident.

Mr. Dykes

Apart from examining the air miss over Stanmore to which my hon. Friend referred, which is very important, is he aware that we need to examine the rest periods and the hours of work of controllers, a point that has also been raised again? Will he discuss that question with the CAA?

Mr. Spicer

That, equally, will be looked into, but the current rest period at a busy control centre such as Heathrow is half an hour every two hours, so considerable rest periods are already built into the system.

Mr. Park

Does the Minister agree that in principle it would be best to segregate private flights from scheduled flights, bearing in mind, for instance, the number of private aeroplanes using Birmingham airport, while Coventry airport just up the road is not used to anything like its full capacity?

Mr. Spicer

That proposition is well worth considering. In the London system, which is far and away the busiest system, there is already clear segregation. However, I shall look carefully into this question. In the United States the lack of segregation has been a major cause of accidents in the past. Perhaps, therefore, we should consider segregation for all airports.

Mr. Allan Stewart

Does my hon. Friend agree with me that there is no reason, on safety grounds, why airlines should not be permitted to make transatlantic flights from Glasgow airport?

Mr. Spicer

I suspect that there are no safety grounds, although I should need to take the advice of the Civil Aviation Authority on that, but there are traffic distribution policy grounds for transatlantic flights being made at the moment only from Prestwick.

Mr. Dalyell

I thank the Minister for his courtesy and obvious concern on telephoning me when I raised with him the case of a constituent who was involved in the incident on the Edinburgh shuttle. Is there any way in which knowledge of these dreadful things—my consituent was terrified—can be made available more quickly?

Mr. Hind

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I shall take the hon. Gentleman's point of order at the end of Question Time.

Mr. Spicer

I believe that a wide distribution of knowledge is a good thing. That is one reason why I very much welcome, as a start, what the chaiman of the CAA has said. He would welcome giving hon. Members as full a briefing on these matters as they are interested in receiving. After that, it will, to some extent, be a matter for their judgment how much knowledge is spread. As a matter of Government policy, I believe that we should make available as much information as we reasonably can, without starting scare campaigns.

Mr. Robert Hughes

I commend the air traffic controllers on their excellent work over the years, but is it not the case that the greater the traffic, the greater the risk and that the CAA report says that, in addition to one or two specific incidents, there has been anxiety about the deterioration in air traffic control standards? Therefore, will the hon. Gentleman study the report extremely carefully and present a report to the House to assure everyone that there is no shortage of staff or training and that money is available to increase the number of staff if that should be needed?

Mr. Spicer

It would be worth analysing that matter in greater detail, because we must not have views based on partial leaks. One misunderstanding has arisen out of a partial leak that referred to only a limited amount of data.

I have looked at the figures carefully and if hon. Members examine the numbers at risk in airmiss reports they will see that there has been a decline as traffic has risen from 1982 to 1985. An impression has been given by the limited figures that have been made available, but the converse of that impression is true. That is precisely why I think that we should have the full facts available.