HC Deb 20 May 1986 vol 98 cc172-3
13. Mr. Kenneth Carlisle

asked the Paymaster General by how much the number of people in self-employment has increased since 1980.

Mr. Kenneth Clarke

Between December 1980 and December 1985, the latest date for which figures are available, the number of self-employed in Great Britain increased by 600,000, or 29.9 per cent.

Mr. Carlisle

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that, in understanding unemployment, one must analyse the employment figures in great detail? Do the figures not show that our efforts to encourage self-employment have been successful? On the other hand, the analyses show also that there are considerable skill shortages. Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that if all those involved in industry increased their skill training substantially more jobs would be created?

Mr. Clarke

I readily agree with my hon. Friend. At a time when many new jobs are being created in the economy, it is frustrating to find that vacancies cannot be filled because of skill shortages. I hope that more will be done to improve that. We are combining the two programmes. In our adult training programme for next year we are including 60,000 places under a training for enterprise programme. The programme actually trains people so that they are able to go into businesses of their own.

Mr. Hickmet

I welcome the figures that my right hon. and learned Friend has given the House. Does he accept that there is still a need for a balanced regional aid policy as well as for the establishment of enterprise zones in various parts of the country? Is there not a lesson to be learnt from such schemes in the number of jobs created in the areas that have them?

Mr. Clarke

I agree. I am delighted to be able to say to my hon. Friend that, between April 1984 and April 1986, the absolute fall in the number of unemployed in Glanford and Scunthorpe, at 568, was the greatest in any constituency.

Mr. Hardy

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that, although we should commend all those who are starting small businesses for their aspiration and courage, we should recognise that the growth is an illustration of hope triumphing over experience?

Mr. Clarke

I do not agree. The vast majority of small businesses are successful and many of them provide employment for other people. That so many people can now thrive in their own businesses shows how rapidly the economy is expanding and what room there is for successful entrepreneurship.

Mr. Yeo

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that among the many reasons for welcoming the increase in self-employment is the fact that it is usually one of the most satisfying ways of being occupied from the point of view of the person concerned, leaving him free to pursue his own initiatives, rather than being bossed about by other people?

Mr. Clarke

I agree. Many people nurse the ambition to be their own boss and run their own business.

Mr. Prescott

Does the Paymaster General accept that the figure of 600,000 self-employed is based on a 2 per cent. survey by his Department? Does he recognise that there is a substantial difference, of a quarter of a million, between the estimates of the number of self-employed in the census and those of his Department? Have not the self-employed figure been inflated to introduce them into the full labour force employment survey so that the Paymaster General can reduce the figure by I per cent. when he next announces the unemployment figures? That represents just another fiddle on the unemployment figures.

Mr. Clarke

The hon. Gentleman is foolish to try to reject the accuracy of figures that were compiled by our statisticians on the same basis as they have always been compiled. The hon. Gentleman is extremely reckless in wishing to use the census as the absolute bench-mark. Of course the census will give the most precise figure, but it is as likely to show that we have underestimated the number of self-employed as overestimated it.