§ 6. Mr. Adleyasked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement on his latest discussions with interested parties concerning the Channel tunnel project.
§ Mr. RidleyWe hold frequent discussions with the concessionaires, the French Government, local authorities and other interested groups, particularly in Kent.
§ Mr. AdleyI understand the opposition of certain hon. Members from Kent and of the Transport and General Workers Union, which is perfectly respectable. However, does my right hon. Friend agree that it is altogether different to find commercial interests such as Sealink deliberately trying to thwart the will of the House in this matter? As the project has, I believe, received the support of all the Opposition parties, will my right hon. Friend ensure that they are kept fully informed and that he takes them along with him in all the steps he needs to take to get the Bill through the House?
§ Mr. RidleyIt is for hon. Members to decide what they do and say in Committees and in the House. In response to my hon. Friend, I must point out that there are about £800 million worth of railway orders involved in the Channel tunnel project, and every week that the Bill does not get through the House is a week in which those orders cannot find their way into the workshops of the country to remedy such problems as we were discussing earlier.
Incidentally, I welcome my hon. Friend back to the House. I hear that he has not been well, and we are all glad to see him back.
§ Mr. BoyesWill the Secretary of State inform interested parties that on 1 May, during business questions the Leader of the House told me that he was considering setting up a Committee to look at the opposed private Bill procedure? Will the Secretary of State say that he will take into consideration any recommendations by that Committee, thereby encouraging a more open and democratic decision-making process on thiss unnecessary, unacceptable and unwanted project?
§ Mr. RidleyAlthough that question is not remotely a matter for me in my responsibilities, I must make it clear that I would welcome the setting up of the inquiry referred to by the hon. Gentleman. I believe that there is a great deal that we can do to improve procedures in that area. I only hope that it will be possible for the Channel tunnel and other such schemes to get through the House in reasonably good order so that we can contribute to creating jobs throughout the country.
§ Mr. SoamesWhen my right hon. Friend is considering the Channel tunnel project, will he bear in mind the shambles that has been caused on the M25 by the inaccuracy of the planning of officials in his Department? What confidence can my right hon. Friend have in the forecast traffic levels for the Channel tunnel project?
§ Mr. RidleyForecasting is always a hazardous business. It may be that 12 years ago those who forecast and planned parts of the M25 underestimated it. However, I am not sure that it is right to prejudge the nature of the cause of the congestion on the M25. It may be due to traffic signing or badly designed junctions. That is not quite the same thing as a shortage of capacity.
§ Mr. DalyellWhat estimate has been made of the effect of delay on jobs, which are likely to be lost? What have the French had to say about what is going on in the House of Commons?
§ Mr. RidleyThe hon. Gentleman will know that about 65,000 man-years of employment are involved in the project, and every week that it is delayed is a week when that employment does not find its way to the factories and workshops of Britain.
In response to his second question, I think that it would be difficult to explain to a Frenchman, in my appallingly bad French, the processes that cause us to take so long to do what the French say they can do in three months.
§ Mr. BaldryDoes my right hon. Friend not think it strange that those who constantly urge and exhort us to spend more on infrastructure are always in the vanguard of those who oppose any specific infrastructure project, whether it be the Channel tunnel or the building of a new motorway?
§ Mr. RidleyMy hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have had three experience of that — Stansted airport, the 9 Okehampton bypass and the London docklands light railway. Now there is the Channel tunnel. They are all major infrastructure projects involving thousands of jobs, and on every occasion Opposition Members have voted against them.
§ Mr. Robert HughesWill the Secretary of State be a bit more forthcoming? He constantly repeats at the Dispatch Box the number of jobs involved, yet when he is asked specifically to provide Government machinery to make sure that the jobs come to England, Scotland and Wales, he says that it is nothing to do with him. If he wants his bread buttered on both sides, and jam as well, the fact is that he has the responsibility for ensuring that, and he must take it. Otherwise, people will listen with some scepticism to his protestations about wanting the jobs.
§ Mr. RidleyThe hon. Gentleman knows full well that I do not have the power to direct a private organisation, such as Eurotunnel, as to where it should place its contracts. Indeed, it would be against the European Community rules if I were to seek to do so. On the other hand, the hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that massive opportunities exist for British firms, and I have no doubt that with their keenness and effectiveness they will secure more than their fair share.
§ Mr. MeadowcroftWhat is the Secretary of State's current estimate of when work is likely to commence on the Channel tunnel? Will there be genuine new through routes across London when the tunnel is open, which will be essential if I am to convince my constituents that the tunnel is not just for the south-east of England?
§ Mr. RidleyI cannot answer the hon. Gentleman's first question about when work will start on the tunnel, because that would be to prejudge the time that Parliament will take to consider the legislation, but I can assure him that the Channel Tunnel Group wishes to start as soon as Royal Assent is given. The hon. Gentleman will know that, on the best estimate, the tunnel might not be operative until 1993. British Rail is actively pursuing ways of opening up the tunnel not only to all points east of Calais but to all points north and west of Dover. It will put forward its plans in due course.
§ Mr. ThurnhamDoes my right hon. Friend agree that the project should provide many thousands of jobs among suppliers of equipment and materials, particularly in the north of England, and that any delay is to be deplored?
§ Mr. RidleyMy hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is a massive infrastructure programme, involving large numbers of jobs, which will be distributed equally all over the country. All regions will benefit.