§ 13. Mr. Cashasked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many working days have been lost through industrial action in Harland and Wolff in each of the years 1982 to 1985.
§ The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Dr. Rhodes Boyson)Harland and Wolff has an excellent industrial relations record. In the years in question Harland and Wolff was never closed by strike action. I shall arrange for the detailed figures of man days lost in these years—very low figures indeed—to be published in the Official Report.
§ Mr. CashCan my hon. Friend assure the House that the tender submitted by Harland and Wolff for the AOR did not contain any element of subsidy?
§ Dr. BoysonI can certainly assure the House of that, as I did when some two weeks ago when questioned by the hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field). We put in PA Management Consultants, an independent and interationally respected firm to review fully the terms of Harland and Wolff's bid. It concluded that the tender was comprehensively costed, contains a profit margin, and did not benefit in any way from cost subsidy.
§ Mr. Stephen RossAnyone who knows John Parker and who has visited Harland and Wolff will know that it is a most up-to-date shipyard and has excellent management. I hope that Ministers are supporting its application for both or at least on of these orders, and I hope, too, that Harland and Wolff will be successful.
§ Dr. BoysonI am grateful to the hon. Member for his comment. Obviously Northern Ireland Ministers are supporting Harland and Wolff. Between the first and the fourth of the Blue Star refrigeration cargo ships that were handed over, there was a 22 per cent. increase in productivity. Apart from one ship, which suffered fire damage while it was being built, they were all delivered on time. Northern Ireland Ministers are supporting the bid by Harland and Wolff. It is a competitive bid without any subsidies.
§ Mr. FallonWill my hon. Friend confirm that public spending last year on industry and unemployment in 1064 Northern Ireland was some 404 per cent. higher per capita than it was in England? Does he accept that there will be strong resentment in the north-east of England if this order is stolen from Tyneside because of public subsidy in Northern Ireland?
§ Dr. BoysonIf my hon. Friend had listened to my earlier reply, he would have heard me say that PA Mangagement Consultants has gone into this. There is no cross-subsidisation. It is a genuine tender that was economically worked out. Hon Members in all parts of the House have recognised for a long time that Northern Ireland has a problem of extremely high unemployment. As money is switched from the Treasury to areas in the north-east and to other areas because of depression and high unemployment, Northern Ireland, as one of those areas of high unemployment and economic difficulty, has also received money.
§ Mr. Nicholas BrownIs the Minister aware of the consequences to Swan Hunter of not getting this order? It will result in 2,000 redundancies on Tyneside. He has given the House assurances about costings and cross-subsidies, but if what he says turns out not to be true and Harland and Wolff obtains the order, who will pick up the price tag? Will it not be the British taxpayer?
§ Dr. BoysonAll hon. Members are aware that if one shipyard gets a contract another one does not. I have sympathy for the people who are made redundant in any shipyard. This competition is between a shipyard in the north-east, in the hon. Member's constituency, and Harland and Wolff in Northern Ireland. In the opinion of Northern Ireland Ministers and, I am sure, in the opinion of all Government Ministers, the judgment should be made on the basis of which of the tenders is the fairer, which offers the better delivery date, the yard from which the better ship is likely to come and the one which provides the lower cost to the Exchequer.
I shall not try to evade any of the points made by the hon. Member. I say to him that it will not be the British taxpayer who subsidises this order. This is a defence contract and, for that reason, must have a built-in profit margin. One of the problems for Harland and Wolff is that, in comparison with other shipyards, it has been dependent upon ordinary cargo shipping, and until recently has not had any defence contracts. I am sure that all hon. Members are aware that there is probably not a shipyard in the world able to build civil shipping at a profit. All our shipyards depend for profit on defence contracts.
§ Following are the figures:
| Man days lost | Man days lost per worker | Man hours lost as per cent. of total | |
| 1982 | 124 | 0.95 | 0.052 |
| 1983 | 865 | 7.78 | 0.436 |
| 1984 | 207 | 2.06 | 0.116 |
| 1985 | 159 | 1.71 | 0.096 |
| Number | |
| Work force at | |
| 1982–83 | 6,162 |
| 1983–84 | 5,309 |
| 1984–85 | 4,998 |