HC Deb 17 March 1986 vol 94 cc13-4
50. Mr. Stephen Ross

asked the Attorney-General when he anticipates charges may be laid with regard to the allegations of fraud in the management of the Peter Cameron Webb Syndicate at Lloyd's.

The Attorney-General

The investigation coordinated by the fraud investigation group set up by the Director of Public Prosecutions for that purpose continues to be vigorously pursued. Substantial progress has been made in recent months, but it would not be right for me to discuss the present state of the evidence. Nor do I propose to speculate as to when a decision will be taken about the preferring of charges.

Mr. Stephen Ross

Has the Attorney-General seen the Daily Mail of 10 March, which identifies Mr. Peter Dixon of the syndicate, who went off with only a cool £7 million—not £40 million that the other gentleman went off with— and who is now living in Virginia? Are we applying for an extradition order so that he can be brought back to face trial in this country?

The Attorney-General

I hope that we shall be in a position to apply for an extradition order. I must remind the House that the United States is slow in dealing with extradition. First, we must have a case that will satisfy the judges in the United States.

Sir Peter Emery

Will my right hon. and learned Friend bear in mind that many Conservative Members are concerned to ensure that where fraud occurs, especially against small investors, the courts should be able to act as soon as possible to bring the perpetrators to justice? Is he aware that there is great public concern about fraud?

The Attorney-General

I share my hon. Friend's concern. There has been a marked improvement in reducing delays lately. In 1983, 25 serious frauds were committed for trial. In 1984 there were 45 committals, and there were 93 in 1985. There were 150 prosecutions started in 1985 and 55 trials were completed, 42 resulting in conviction, which my hon. Friend will know is well above the average conviction rate. A great many compliments are due to the fraud investigation group for what it is doing.

Mr. Skinner

Does the Attorney-General recall saying to one of his hon. Friends that he found the level of City fraud unacceptable? Is he aware that Peter Dixon was issued with a writ in America a short time ago in respect of a civil action? If it is possible for the civil authorities to serve a writ on that man, who with his partner got away with £39 million according to the investigations which were carried out by Lloyd's, why is it that the Government, the fraud squad and those who act on behalf of the DPP find themselves unable to track down Peter Dixon and carry out what most people regard as British justice? If old-age pensioners can be done for taking a tin of salmon— some of them are locked up for such offences—I am sure that the British people will regard it as less than even-handed treatment when crooks in the City can get away with blue murder.

The Attorney-General

The degree of proof and the testing of it in civil proceedings is different from that in criminal matters. I shall tell the House what is happening. The Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions is heading a squad comprising the assistant director, a professional officer, two detective superintendents and five counsel, two of them being Queen's counsel. All of them have been trained in the process of reinsurance. The difficulty is the tracing of the funds to ultimate beneficiaries. The funds have gone through several countries. Some of the witnesses have been unhelpful, and I am probably using a phrase of understatement in saying that. It is extremely difficult for us to deal with laws abroad on disclosures of confidential information. We have been having difficulties with Switzerland, which in this instance is the most important country, and where the Banque du Rhone is situated. We are doing everything possible to bring to justice those who committed these offences.

Mr. McCrindle

Will my right hon. and learned Friend confirm that whoever or whatever is holding up the pursuit of these prosecutions, Lloyd's is not, contrary to what has often been suggested, one of the responsible parties? On the contrary, Lloyd's is prepared to continue to give every possible assistance in bringing the perpetrators of the frauds to justice.

The Attorney-General

I can confirm that. Lloyd's is giving to the Director all the documents that are relevant, and I am extremely grateful to it. However, the difficulty in obtaining evidence from abroad and the rules of confidentiality make it very difficult to get on as fast as we would like.