CLIENTS' MONEY (Hansard, 12 June 1986)

§ Mr. Tim Smith
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I rose to speak when you called amendment No. 79.

Mr. Deputy Speaker
I am extremely sorry, but I did not notice the hon. Gentleman. If he stood up, I apologise to him. We have now moved on to amendment No. 80, which is in his name.

§ Mr. Smith
I beg to move amendment No. 80, in page 34, line 18, leave out 'audited by an auditor' and insert 'examined by an accountant'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this it will be convenient to take the following amendments: No. 81, in page 34. line 20, leave out 'auditor' and insert 'accountant'.

§ Mr. Smith
I was a little concerned about the cavalier way in which the Government dealt with amendment No.79, because it reversed an amendment made in Committee following a Division in which I was supported by my hon. Friend the Member for Chicester (Mr. Nelson). As the majority of the Committee wanted three words included in the Bill and as amendment No. 79 deletes them, some explanation would have been welcome. It is not worth making a great fuss about this, but a little explanation would have been pleasant.
I do not want to say much on amendment No. 80, because the Minister was very helpful on this matter in Committee. He said that he was sympathic to the three points contained in the three amendments. I hope that his sympathy may be converted into acceptance of them.

§ Mr. Cash
The word "accountant" is an expression which does not necessarily refer to a chartered accountant. I have already made that point and I do not want to labour it, but at this stage it is important to put it on the record again.

§ Mr. Howard
I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Mr. Cash) will forgive me if I do not repeat the reply which I gave to the point which he raised earlier.
Regarding the first point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Smith), amendments Nos. 79 and 83, to which he referred, sought to incorporate into clause 50 more satisfactorily the amendment passed in Committee. We have always intended that Clause 50 should allow regulations to be made concerning interest on clients' money. That would include requiring accounts and records in respect of that interest to be kept. We accept that there is room for clarification and that has been done in two ways.
Firstly, as part of the general tidying up of rule-making powers in part V, we have made it clear that the list of powers in subsection (2) is without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1). Secondly, the new formulation of subsection (2)(f) makes it clear that the phrase "clients' money" embraces interest. Generally, regulations under clause 50 will, therefore, clearly be capable of being made in respect of interest. In view of this approach the amendment to subsection (2)(d) is unnecessary. That is why amendment No. 79 removes the change made in Committee at my hon. Friend's behest.
My hon. Friend is correct, regarding amendments Nos. 80, 81 and 82, in reminding the House that I expressed my sympathy for his argument in Committee and I am happy to——

§ Mr. Cash
Does my hon. and learned Friend take the point that the words "in his opinion" which are contained in those amendments would be going over the top in almost any circumstances? We could not have a matter of such importance being determined as a matter of law by the "opinion". I am sure that my hon. and learned Friend understands what the wording "in his opinion" means, and that he would find it unacceptable.

§ Mr. Howard
I hope that my hon. Friend is referring to the amendments that we have excised from the Bill and not 596 to the amendments to which I have referred and which the Government are prepared to accept. If that is the case, and I believe that it is, I confirm that I am happy to accept the amendments.