HC Deb 10 June 1986 vol 99 cc157-8
1. Mr. Willie W. Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on future funding of United Kingdom universities, with particular reference to research and staff salaries.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. George Walden)

As my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph) announced on 20 May, the Government are willing to consider some additional funding for the universities provided there is clear evidence of progress in implementing necessary changes. These include the development of the policy of selectivity and rationalisation, better financial management and improved standards of teaching. Any new structure for academic pay will have to provide the necessary flexibility to enable institutions to recruit and retain staff of the required quality.

Mr. Hamilton

Is it not a shocking thought that after seven years of Conservative Government there should be talk about the possibility of closing one or more universities in this country? Does the Minister recognise that in the past seven or eight years the eight Scottish universities have suffered a cut in their financial resources overall of over 10 per cent. in real terms and that in the forthcoming academic year all of them will suffer substantial cuts? Will he give an undertaking on behalf of his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State that they will fight like tigers in the Cabinet for increased resources? A sickly smile will be no substitute for that.

Mr. Walden

I know of no plans to close universities. As for the position in Scotland, the University Grants Committee does not discriminate geographically.

Mr. Batiste

Does my hon. Friend agree that while it makes sense to link research funding to the excellence of that research, it necessarily implies that there must be fair criteria for selecting the quality of research and a fair method of appeal for those who disagree with the category within which they have been put?

Mr. Walden

My hon. Friend makes a fair point, but I draw his attention to the fact that these judgments were not arrived at haphazardly. They were arrived at not only by the UGC, but in consultation with the Royal Society, research councils, medical charities, other learned bodies and other very distinguished individuals. Therefore, I stress that the judgments were not arrived at lightly.

Mr. Freud

Is the Minister aware that poor pay and chances of promotion are the major factors affecting recruitment into universities? Does he accept that lecturers and vice-chancellors agree that there is a 24 per cent. fallback in cash? What will he do about it?

Mr. Walden

I shall not weary the House with the arguments about the so-called 24 per cent. cut in pay. I am looking to the future on this question, as I hope the hon. Gentleman will, too. As indicated by my right hon. Friend the former Secretary of State for Education and Science. we hope that the university authorities, vice-chancellors and the Association of University Teachers, will come up with some movement in the areas of flexibility, structure and appraisal, which will enable us to look again at academic pay.

Mr. Michael Forsyth

Is my hon. Friend aware that the institute of agriculture at Stirling university, which has managed to raise more than £1 million of outside research funds, has a gold medal and has won two international prizes in the past three years for its research, has been described by the UGC as having a research department of average calibre and that, instead of having applied research, it might merge with the biology department? Is he satisfied that these people are able to make objective decisions, because, rather like the experience of my hon. Friend the Member for Elmet (Mr. Batiste), there is widespread concern about this and no means of appeal?

Mr. Walden

I should like to make it clear that the judgments of research quality do not reflect judgments of whole universities. For example, they do not take account of teaching. They are judgments made department by department. I go back to what I said earlier. If my hon. Friend does not expect the list of impressive institutions and individuals to which I referred to make those judgments, who else can do it? Certainly not the Government.

Mr. Radice

Why, after the Prime Minister's pledge at the 1983 election that the real level of university funding would be kept level, was the current grant cut by 5 per cent. in real terms last year and why, in the coming year, do universities face a cut of 2 per cent. in real terms?

Mr. Walden

Again, I invite the hon. Gentleman to look forward and not to hark backwards. I draw his attention to the fact that serious, positive and forward-looking discussions are currently taking place between the vice-chancellor and my Department.