HC Deb 15 July 1986 vol 101 cc841-3
10. Mr. Cartwright

asked the Secretary of State for Defence when he expects to receive the results of his Department's studies into the reasons for premature voluntary outflow from the services.

Mr. Freeman

The Ministry of Defence takes a continuing interest in the reasons for premature voluntary outflow. As part of that process a number of specific studies are currently under way and results are expected to become available by about the end of the year.

Mr. Cartwright

Is the Minister aware of the view of a number of senior officers that one major cause of the worrying outflow of skilled and experienced personnel is that our armed forces are overstretched and are being asked to do too much with limited resources, which has an adverse impact on the personal lives of the service men concerned? If that turns out to be a factor, what will the Government do to put it right?

Mr. Freeman

Obviously, by its nature, service life is turbulent, but we are conducting thorough reviews. There is a new form of questionnaire for those seeking premature voluntary retirement. When we have those results, which I hope will be accurate, we shall be able to judge the reasons—there may he more than one—for premature voluntary outflow.

Mr. Duffy

Is the Minister aware that the overstretch to which the hon. Member for Woolwich (Mr. Cartwright) referred is particularly evident in the Royal Navy, where ships are now putting in more sea time than in world war 2 and the 1930s? Does that not point to the urgent need for replacement ships, apart from additional surface ships, because they are a good deal less labour-intensive?

Mr. Freeman

The PVR figures, particularly for the Royal Navy, show that there is some levelling off. There might even be some early evidence of improvement. The PVR figures for this year are considerably below those for 1978–79, when the previous Government suspended pay comparability.

Sir David Price

Is it not an excellent thing, if the supplementary questions are correct, that the services are being stretched? Is not that what service life is about? Is not the best way of simulating wartime conditions to stretch the services, and does it not show that peacetime soldiering is not an idle occupation?

Mr. Freeman

As I have said, when the results of the study are available we shall be able to judge what the reasons are — there may be more than one — for the current PVR rate.

Mr. Allen McKay

Does the Minister accept that the present formulation of Falklands pay is less than helpful in the retention of the men in all three services? Will he repeal the formula and make Falklands pay from day one, as it should be?

Mr. Freeman

Since 1979 the Government have accepted and implemented all the Armed Forces Pay Review Body recommendations. Our experience is that armed forces personnel in all three services and at all levels greatly appreciate what the Government have done with regard to pay.

Mr. Bill Walker

Does my hon. Friend agree that at times when the civil airlines are in the market for pilots, the Royal Air Force has traditionally lost a substantial number of trained personnel to those airlines, and that we are now in such a situation? Could not those highly skilled, trained people who are going out to the civil airlines be used by the Royal Air Force to its advantage if they were kept in an auxiliary or reserve flying role?

Mr. Freeman

My hon. Friend is right. He has put his finger on the problem. The problem has been continuing for a considerable time, but we are studying it.

Mr. Dubs

Given the signs of racial discrimination in the British Army—

Mr. Nicholas Winterton

Rubbish.

Mr. Dubs

It is not rubbish—will the Minister look carefully to see whether it is likely that black soldiers are leaving the Army early because they are not given the same opportunities for promotion as their white contemporaries?

Mr. Freeman

That is pure speculation. The policy of the Government, which has been consistent under different Administrations, is that racial discrimination is not tolerated. That is the Government's clear and firm policy.

Mr. Wallace

Are not the lack of resources to which my hon. Friend the Member for Woolwich (Mr. Cartwright) referred affecting the ability of many of our service men to exercise as fully as possible? Is it not having a damaging effect on morale? Is it not the case that, until the Secretary of State and his Ministers face up to the budgetary crisis in the Ministry of Defence, those problems will not be solved or go away?

Mr. Freeman

I do not share the premise of the hon. Gentleman's argument. I do not believe, and there is no evidence to show, that our armed forces are prevented from exercising properly.

Mr. Wilkinson

Further to the serious point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Tayside, North (Mr. Walker), is not the continuing loss to the flying service of fast jet pilots a great economic loss to the nation, because they are trained at £3 million apiece? Is it not about time that an effective flying role was found for them in the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, as is the case with the Air National Guard in the United States reserve?

Mr. Freeman

My hon. Friend has made a valid point. The loss of our pilots to the civil airlines is of some concern, but we should not get it out of proportion. We are looking at the problem.