HC Deb 04 July 1986 vol 100 cc1343-7

Lords amendment: No. 76, in page 13, line 18, at end insert— "the 1980 Act" means the Education (Scotland) Act 1980;".

Mr. Tom Clarke

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following Lords amendments: No. 77, in page 13, line 23, leave out "1(5)" and insert

(Appointment of authorised representatives of disabled persons) (1)". No. 78, in page 13, line 32, at end insert— guardian" (except in section (Appointment of authorised representatives of disabled persons) (6))—

  1. (a) in relation to England and Wales, means a person appointed by deed or will or by order of a court of competent jurisdiction to be the guardian of a child; and
  2. (b) in relation to Scotland, means a person appointed by deed or will or by order of a court of competent jurisdiction to he the tutor, curator or guardian of a child;
"Health Board" means a Health Board within the meaning of the 1978 Act; hospital"—
  1. (a) in relation to England and Wales, means—
    1. (i) a health service hospital within the meaning of the 1977 Act, or
    2. (ii) any accommodation provided by any person pursuant to arrangements made under section 23(1) of that Act (voluntary organisations and other bodies) and used as a hospital; and
  2. (b) in relation to Scotland, means a health service hospital within the meaning of the 1978 Act;".
 No. 79, in page 13, line 41, leave out "sections 1 and 2" and insert section 1, as read with section 2,". No. 80, in page 14, line 2, at end insert— "modifications" includes additions, omissions and amendments; parent"—
  1. (a) in relation to England and Wales, means, in the case of a child who is illegitimate, his mother, to the exclusion of his father; and
  2. (b) in relation to Scotland, means, in the case of a child whose father is not married to the mother, his mother, to the exclusion of his father;"
 No. 81, in page 14, line 3, at end insert— special hospital" means a special hospital within the meaning of the 1977 Act; State hospital" means a State hospital within the meaning of the 1984 Act; statutory services"—
  1. (a) in relation to England and Wales, means services under any arrangements which a local authority are required to make by virtue of any of the welfare enactments, and
  2. (b) in relation to Scotland, means services which a local authority find it necessary to provide themselves or by arrangement with another local authority, or with any voluntary or other body, in connection with the performance of the local authority's functions under the welfare enactments;
voluntary organisation" means a body the activities of which are carried on otherwise than for profit, but does not include any public or local authority;". No. 82, in page 14, line 10, after "and" insert sections 7 and 8 of". No. 83, in clause 14, in page 14, line 17, leave out "made by statutory instrument".

No. 84, in page 14, line 19, at end insert , and different provision may he made under this subsection for England and Wales and for Scotland". No. 85, in page 15, line 21, after "and" insert (except in the case of an order under subsection (2))".

Mr. Clarke

Inevitably, all these amendments are consequential. The definitions in particular have been moved around the Bill and a number of new definitions have been added. As clause 14 concerns both commencement orders and extent, I should like to put on the record my pleasure at the statement in the other place by Baroness Trumpington on behalf of the Government to the effect that consultation on how the Bill might be translated to Northern Ireland will be put in hand if the Bill is enacted. This was much more positive and constructive than earlier ministerial statements. I am delighted that the Government now accept that the benefits of the Bill should be afforded throughout the United Kingdom to people with disabilities.

As we come to the end of our deliberations may I take the opportunity to thank the ministerial team which has been responsible for the Government's input into the Bill? I would also like to thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Morris) and my right hon. and hon. Friends for the work that they have done in taking the Bill this far. There has been an enormous amount of commitment, especially on the part of organisations for the disabled and many others. I believe that the strength of support for those organisations led the Government to many of the decisions they have taken in the course of the Bill's passage through both Houses.

1.15pm

We have had a most interesting debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Bow and Poplar (Mr. Mikardo), in the characteristically generous manner we have come to expect from him, predicted that one day I might find myself in heaven. I hope that that will not be too soon because I am not sure that my constituency Labour party would welcome a by-election at this early stage. If that ever happens I am sure that the hon. Member for Bow and Poplar will be there in his rightful place, at the very least as Chairman of the Select Committee on Standing Orders. I do not know whether there is a St. Ladbroke up there but if there is not I am sure that he will deal with that matter as well. My hon. Friend the Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley) gave magnificent help during the progress of the Bill and I know that that is appreciated by everybody on both sides of the House.

We have reached the stage at which I would like to move the amendments before the House. In the spirit of the ministerial statements that we have heard from the Dispatch Box on other causes, may I say that I have no doubt that the discussions in both Houses and outside the Palace of Westminster that have led to this comprehensive view of the problems of disability show that the British people have set a clear priority.

I accept, as I did on Second Reading, that it will be necessary to consider implementation on the basis of phasing. Nevertheless, I believe that in this clause, as in others, the British people and the House will not accept that resources cannot be made available. We believe that even the figure that the Minister has given on several occasions today does not represent something which is extravagant in the extreme.

We believe that disabled persons and their carers, mentally handicapped persons and families up and down the country have experienced serious problems. The Bill attempts to right some of those problems, although not all of them. However, given the commitment on the part of the Government and the House, which has been shown almost unanimously at every stage, recognised and reflected at the Treasury, the Government are compelled to recognise the strong feelings and make sure that resources are made available.

Mr. Newton

I shall respond to the remarks of the hon. Member for Monklands, West (Mr. Clarke) by saying that in my judgment the Government have shown, persistently over six or seven years, their commitment to the needs and interests of disabled people in a variety of ways, including the improvements and extensions of social security benefits in the way I described a little while ago. We shall continue to do everything we can to ensure that that progress is more than maintained. It is in that spirit and against the background of what we have already been able to achieve that we shall approach the consideration of the implementation of those parts of the Bill with significant effects on resources.

If you will allow me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, since you inadvertently cut me off without a word on the previous group of amendments and I had some modest news to impart, I should like to impart that good news now. I am talking about clauses 6 to 8. On the matter of timing and implementation, I hope, subject to discussions with local authority associations and other bodies concerned, that it will be possible to bring clauses 6 and 7 into effect no later than April 1987.

Clause 8 deals with reports to Parliament. We shall consider the possibility of bringing the clause into effect this autumn, and making the first annual report on the basis of 1985 data before the end of the year. I hope that the House will find that helpful. We should be able to produce a more informative report when what is known as Körner data—that is improved information about the Health Service—become available, but that will not be until 1988.

Perhaps those undertakings and hopes give some further emphasis to what I said about the Government's commitment to continue the progress of improvements for disabled people in a variety of ways.

I wish to pay my last tribute in these debates to all those who have been connected with our proceedings. I add my words to the kind remarks that have been made about the hon. Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley), whose performance has been such that I think that he would be well qualified to be a Government Whip, bearing in mind the efficiency that he has shown in organising the proceedings of the House. But perhaps he would regard the prospect of being elevated to the post of Government Whip as a fate worse than death. However, his efforts in organising our proceedings have been of significant assistance to us all. I am grateful to him for what he has done to support the hon. Member for Monklands, West and us all in achieving the happy position in which we find ourselves. We hope that Royal Assent will be only a short time away.

Mr. Alfred Morris

Many who are present congratulated my hon. Friend the Member for Monklands, West (Mr. Clarke) at the outset of today's proceedings. I have reserved my congratulations to this final stage so as to be absolutely certain that the Bill is bound for the statute book. This is an extremely important measure and my hon. Friend has been skilful and tireless. He has been wholly superb throughout the proceedings on the Bill.

I hold it to be the bounden duty of the Minister — as a member of a Government who have given over £4.4 billion in tax relief to those earning over £30,000 a year — to press upon his colleagues the point that implementing this Bill must now be a priority of priorities.

Again, I most warmly congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Monklands, West. He will be thanked by disabled people everywhere for nudging things forward on their behalf. I hope that we shall be rejoicing very soon about the full implementation of his legislation.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords amendments agreed to.