§ Mrs. Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As you know, the House appointed me to serve in Committee on the Felixstowe Dock and Railway Bill—an opposed private Bill. This morning I informed Mr. Deputy Speaker that I had left the Committee permanently. I wish to seek your guidance for the future so that all hon. Members can benefit from your wisdom on this point. I left because of a smear campaign against me by the Conservative party, including a Minister, and suggestions that I received money from the Transport and General Workers Union, which opposes the Bill.
I wish to place it on record that I have never received any financial inducements, or inducements of any kind, from the TGWU. I deeply resent any such suggestion. The managing director of the company, Mr. Parker, last week impugned my integrity at a Committee hearing when he was being questioned about massive donations by the company to the Conservative party. Will you give guidance on the question of private companies appearing to offer inducements to hon. Members through political donations prior to a private Bill coming to the House, and apparently buying a slot in parliamentary proceedings? Will you also advise the House how hon. Members can be protected from scandalous attacks from a company and other hon. Members? The issues are so serious that it is doubtful whether any Labour Members can or will be able to sit on this Committee in my place. I appeal to my hon. Friends not to undermine my position, which I believe is important to the integrity of Parliament.
§ Mr. Brian Sedgemore (Hackney, South and Shoreditch)Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker, a serious point is at issue here. It is slightly tangential but bears on the point made by my hon. Friend. We are in danger of seeing the start of a new venal practice which can only damage our parliamentary democracy. As you know, Mr. Speaker, "Erskine May" makes it clear that neither individuals nor private companies should offer inducements to hon. Members either directly or indirectly, which might affect the way they speak or the way they vote. It doubly sets that standard in the case of attempted bribery.
The Felixstowe Dock and Railway Company is wholly owned by European Ferries. It was preparing the relevant Bill for some years and was pouring money into the Conservative party over those years. The company has provided a handwritten document giving details of its donations to the Conservative party. The document is dated 23 January 1986. In the years 1980 and 1981—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I must stop the hon. Gentleman. If he is alleging contempt, he must write to me in the proper way and I will look at the matter to see whether it is a matter of privilege. We cannot have a debate on what is happening in a private Bill Committee. That is not a matter for the Floor of the House. If some irregularity is alleged, the proper course is for the Committee to make a report to the House so that the House can deal with it.
§ Mr. SedgemoreI am not sure whether I am alleging contempt or a breach of privilege. I am not attempting directly to do those things. My point is that in the run-up to the placing of this Bill before the House last year, large 962 donations were made by a company to a political party. This year a clear statement has been made that the directors of that company will not advise shareholders to make a donation. What kind of people do they think we are? Do they think we do not know the purport of that statement? You, Mr. Speaker, ought to help to protect us in this matter.
§ Mr. Jonathan Sayeed (Bristol, East)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerI will take it, but it is wasting a bit of time.
§ Mr. SayeedUnlike the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd), I have attended every meeting of the Committee. I was at the meeting the hon. Lady has mentioned. I can assure the House, and any sensible person who has read the transcript will accept, that Mr. Parker, the managing director of the Felixstowe Dock and Railway Company, did not impugn the integrity of the hon. Lady. The hon. Lady brought up the question of political donations and started a line of questioning which was not germane to the Committee's proceedings. I can assure the House that no approaches were made to me or to my hon. Friend the Chairman of the Select Committee about the political donations made by European Ferries to the Conservative Party.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I do not want any more help. We have a private Bill procedure and this is a matter for the Committee dealing with that Bill. If the Committee wishes to make a report to the House on this matter, that is the correct course.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursI do not want to refer specifically to any allegations that I have made, Mr. Speaker, but over the past few weeks you have received a number of allegations about contempt and privilege. In the replies that you sent to Members, you expressed the strongly held view that matters of contempt and privilege should not be raised on the Floor of the House but should be dealt with by correspondence. My hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd) has written to you about the matter under discussion today. If she has written to you—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. That is just the point. The hon. Lady wrote to me about a matter of privilege. I have dealt with it and followed the recommendations of the Select Committee, which recommended that in future matters of privilege should be dealt with in that way.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursIf, as per the judgment you gave, Mr. Speaker, the matter is not one of contempt or privilege, how can we possibly raise the matter of a statement that was made during the course of the proceedings? The representative of the company said:
I suspect the reverse is true of people who contribute to your party like the Transport and General Workers might also expect you to take—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman raises a point of order every day and does not listen to what I say in reply to previous questions. I have already said that this is a matter for the Committee. If the Committee wishes to make a report to the House, it has that power and it should do so. I cannot deal with the matter now.
§ Mr. Campbell-Savoursrose—
§ Mrs. Clwydrose—
§ Mr. SpeakerThis is getting to be a bore.
§ Mrs. ClwydFurther to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I ask for your guidance? I have posed some questions to you that are in addition to the questions I raised in my letter which you kindly answered. I am not seeking to raise those matters now, but I am asking some additional questions and would be grateful for your guidance about what we should do about these matters in future.
§ Mr. SpeakerI thank the hon. Lady. I fully appreciate and understand that the private Bill procedure puts a considerable strain on Members who have Select Committee and Standing Committee work. I have discussed the matter with the Chairman of Ways and Means and I am trying to see in what way it may be possible to resolve these difficult matters.
§ Mrs. ClwydWith respect, Mr. Speaker, that does not cover the point I raised in my original request to you. I raised some points of principle which have nothing to do with the difficulties of serving on two or three Committees at the same time. They relate to the integrity of Members of this House and I am asking how we can protect ourselves.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Lady raised that very point in her letter and I answered it in the letter that I sent to her. We had better leave the matter there, because the proper procedure has been followed. If the hon. Lady is dissatisfied with my ruling, she should take the matter to the Committee and the Committee will report to the House.
§ Mr. Ron Davies (Caerphilly)I ask you, Mr. Speaker, to reconsider the advice you have just given to my hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd), because the issues she has drawn to your attention have developed during the course of the day. The comments made to my hon. Friend, which she obviously considers have offended her dignity and honour as a Member of this House, have caused her to relinquish her membership of a Committee dealing with private business. Obviously, sanctions can be applied against my hon. Friend and surely there is a responsibility on you, Mr. Speaker, to give further advice to my hon. Friend about whether she is now breaching a principle.
§ Mr. SpeakerI have already given the hon. Lady my advice. She raised the point as a matter of privileges and I have dealt with it as a matter of privilege. She and no doubt the hon. Gentleman know what my answer is on that matter. I cannot say any more. I have given my ruling.