§ 32. Mr. Dykesasked the Attorney-General whether he now has any plans to increase manpower dealing with fraud investigations.
§ The Attorney-GeneralI am grateful to the House.
The Director of Public Prosecutions is increasing the number of lawyers on his staff who are assigned full-time 767 to fraud cases from the present 15 to a total of 24—a 60 per cent. increase. There will also be increases in support staff. It is especially important that those staff should have considerable relevant experience, and we are exploring the use of some form of short service contract so as to permit the recruitment, for this purpose, of experienced practitioners from the Bar and solicitors' firms.
I shall, of course, continue to monitor the position closely.
§ Mr. DykesI warmly welcome my right hon. and learned Friend on behalf of hon. Members in all parts of the House and express the hope that he has recovered. I thank him for the answer. Does he now believe that, at long last, we have the basis, in terms of the number of people available, coupled with the Roskill recommendations, for a real and serious attack on the growing problem of fraud?
§ The Attorney-GeneralThis involves the operation of the fraud investigation group. Roskill's first recommendation involves something even better than FIG and of course the Government will look closely at that. That might need even more resources, in which case I shall welcome them.
§ Mr. SkinnerDoes the Attorney-General realise that he has a lot to live up to in view of his statement some months ago that the level of City fraud was unacceptable? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give a guarantee that, based upon these new recruits, including lawyers, he will be able to state unequivocally—
§ Mr. Cormack—and categorically.
§ Mr. Skinner—and categorically, as well as without ambiguity, that Peter Cameron-Webb, who is now living in Miami, will be brought back to Britain to face charges that relate to him getting rid of a sum approaching £130 million? According to yesterday's newspaper reports, Cameron-Webb, along with Peter Dixon, made £13 million for himself. Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give a guarantee that law and order applies to people such as Cameron-Webb and Dixon as well as to those in the inner cities, and that they are subject to the law like the rest of the British people?
§ The Attorney-GeneralI shall answer the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question by giving him an idea of the resources that we are applying to the PCW and Howden frauds. There is the Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions—
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursWill the right hon. and learned Gentleman bring them back?
§ The Attorney-GeneralThere is an assistant director and a professional officer —
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursAnswer the question.
§ The Attorney-GeneralI shall come to it. There are two detective superintendents and other police and five counsel, including two QCs. The problem lies in tracing the funds so that we can ascertain who were the ultimate beneficiaries. There are several countries involved as well as a bank in Switzerland which was acquired by Howden. More than 1 million documents have been seized from Howden. There are extradition problems to face in getting back Cameron-Webb and others, and it may be that they are in Costa Rica and not Miami.
§ Mr. SkinnerThe newspapers say that they are in Miami.
§ The Attorney-GeneralI do not mind what is in the newspapers. If Cameron-Webb is in Costa Rica, the House will be aware that we do not have an extradition treaty with that country. If he is in the United States—this applies to Cameron-Webb and to[...] Dixon—the extradition procedure will be a lengthy business. Grob is another person who we would like to see back in this country . He has dual nationality—Swiss and British—and the Swiss do not extradite their own nationals.
§ Mr. SpencerDoes my right hon. and learned Friend agree that outside London the country forces have been dealing effectively with cases of long-firm fraud and fraudulent trading for many years and bringing those guilty of such offences to book, with the courts passing appropriate sentences?
§ The Attorney-GeneralLong-firm frauds are some of the easiest frauds to investigate and to prosecute. It is the much more complex frauds that have been causing difficulties. It is interesting that the Director of Public Prosecutions informed provincial police forces last year that if they wanted the assistance of FIG they had only to ask for it. A number of provincial fraud cases of great complexity—there are stock exchanges outside London—have been referred to FIG.
§ Mr. Nicholas BrownMy right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Aberavon (Mr. Morris) and I extend a warm welcome to the Attorney-General on his return to our proceedings. I hope that he has made a full and robust recovery from his recent operation. In taking up the issues raised by the committee on fraud trials, is it now the Government's view that too few reported fraud cases are brought to trial, and that this is primarily because of a lack of resources? What consideration is being given to the issues of expertise that are raised in the report, especially the training in accountancy and information technology that is suggested for barristers and judges, and especially for fraud squad investigation officers?
§ The Attorney-GeneralI am very grateful for the kind words of the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, East (Mr. Brown) and the right hon. and learned Member for Aberavon (Mr. Morris). I feel very much better.
There has been a great deal of extra training in FIG. Lawyers, including counsel, have been to Lloyd's and learnt the reinsurance processs. They are now much more skilled. The purpose of FIG is to gain a highly skilled group of experts—lawyers, accountants and the rest—who are much better able to get on quickly with what we hope are better trained police officers. So far, FIG has been a great success story. Indeed, it has been so successful that it is almost overwhelming.