§ 4. Mr. Foulkesasked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the current full rate of student grant; what was the comparable figure in 1979; and if he will express the current figure in 1979 prices.
§ Mr. WaldenThe full rate of grant in 1985–86 for a student living away from home outside London is £1,830. This is equivalent to £973 at 1978–79 prices. The corresponding full rate of grant in 1978–79 was£1,100, but students at that time could also claim excess travel expenses, which were worth, on average, an extra £3 per student.
§ Mr. FoulkesWill the Minister confirm that the paltry 2 per cent. increase in student grants is a reduction in real terms, bringing the total reduction in real terms since 1979 to 20 per cent.? Does he accept that this will be exacerbated by the change in social security provision which will make the student ineligible? What is the rationale behind making students suffer in this way, particularly students from working-class backgrounds?
§ Mr. WaldenI do not deny that the Government's measures are calling for an extra effort from students and parents. At the same time, I would expect the hon. Gentleman and those students —
§ Mr. FoulkesWhat is the reason?
§ Mr. WaldenIf the hon. Gentleman will wait, I shall tell him. I expect the hon. Gentleman and those students and parents to understand that this effort is being asked for against the background of an unprecedented expansion in the numbers of students in higher education.
§ Mrs. Kellett-BowmanDoes my hon. Friend agree that it is not students on full grants who are suffering, but those whose parents are assessed but fail to pay? They are the ones who are obliged to take out what he is pleased to call de facto loans, which most people call overdrafts. This is a serious matter on which we wish the Department would change its mind.
§ Mr. WaldenMy hon. Friend draws attention to a real problem. However, I am sure that she would not want or expect the Government to regulate relationships between parents and children. As previous Governments have said, we hope that parents will pay their student offspring the required contributions to their grant.
§ Mr. MaddenIf the Government introduce their poll tax, how will it affect student grants, and what changes in grants will be implemented?
§ Mr. WaldenThe Government have not yet decided whether or how students could be compensated if the introduction of such a tax were confirmed.
§ Mr. CormackDoes my hon. Friend agree that people of 18 are adults and not children? If he does, will he please reconsider loans? If he is to penalise students, as he is doing, there must be some alternative, and a properly regulated low-interest loan would appeal to some.
§ Mr. WaldenAs I said in reply to an earlier question, the Government cannot deny that there are some anomalies in the present system. One is the long-standing convention that it will unfortunately be far too costly—a matter of hundreds of millions of pounds, I believe —to lower the independence age from 25.
§ Mr. WilsonIn the light of the exasperation expressed by the Minister's Back Benchers, will he care to explain the educational reasons for grants declining in value by 20 per cent. in real terms during the past six years? Does he agree that that decline tends to discourage the take-up of higher education? It certainly causes hardship, whatever the educational implications might be.
§ Mr. WaldenI rather doubt whether the hon. Gentleman has considered the educational implications. As I have already said, we have the largest ever number of students in Britain, and we have the largest proportion of the population in higher education.