§ Mr. SpeakerYesterday, in column 793 of Hansard the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) cast an inadmissible reflection upon the honour of the Attorney-General. At the time I did not notice it, but having considered it carefully in Hansard this morning, I ask him, please, to withdraw it.
§ Mr. D.N. Campbell-Savours (Workington)I am grateful to you, Mr. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity and to the Attorney-General for being present in the House today. It is as I predicted yesterday morning: if the Attorney-General had replied for the Government in yesterday's debate, I know that the entire debate would have taken a different course. It is unfortunate that one has to deploy such an elaborate ruse to secure the attendance of the Attorney-General in the Chamber—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursI will deal with it in my time. [Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. If the hon. Gentleman has such comments shouted at him he cannot possibly get on with his apology. Will he please get on with it?
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursYou asked me to withdraw, Mr. Speaker, yet the House knows that the Attorney-General had a duty to prosecute Chapman Pincher in 1981.
§ Mr. Robert Atkins (South Ribble)This is an abuse.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursIt was for the Attorney-General to decide whether Pincher was prosecuted under section 2 of the Official Secrets Act or section 7 of the Official Secrets Act 1920. He failed in his duty. He had a duty to prosecute Sir Dick White and Arthur Martin. Now, five and a half years later, he says that he is considering—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I gave the hon. Gentleman an opportunity to withdraw the comment about the Attorney-General not to carry on the debate which took place yesterday.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursI am about to deal precisely with your request, Mr. Speaker.
It was the Attorney-General who failed to prosecute Rupert Allason and those who fed him classified material, and all the time he hides behind the skirts of the Prime Minister. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Will the hon. Gentleman now, please, withdraw his comment and, in fairness, not carry on the debate?
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursYou asked me, Mr. Speaker, to withdraw my accusation. Out of deference to the Chair, I unreservedly do so. The Attorney-General's honour must stand intact and I am required to accept that. As to his conduct, history will make its judgments, and such judgments may not be based on that which is published in the monthly bound volumes of the Official Report.
§ Mr. Eric Forth (Mid-Worcestershire)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. Robert Atkins (South Ribble)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon Gentleman has now made his withdrawal. [HON. MEMBERS: "NO."] He has. It does not help the House or its reputation to seek to continue points of order when an hon. Gentleman has done that.
§ Mr. Andrew Faulds (Warley, East)rose—
§ Mr. SpeakerI am not taking a point of order on this matter.
§ Mr. ForthI am asking for your guidance, Mr. Speaker, for future occasions. When a Member of the House asks leave to withdraw a statement that he has made, will it be in order on any future occasion for such an hon. Member to use the occasion of what he claims to be a withdrawal to repeat allegations or to make other statements which are equally bad?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe answer to that is no.
§ Mr. FauldsOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker, on an entirely different matter.
§ Mr. Alan Williams (Swansea, West)Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I clarify your ruling? There are two specific allegations in the column referred to, one following immediately after the other. The one allegation reads:
I am told that the Attorney-General is desperate for the Woolsack."—[Official Report. 15 December 1986; Vol. 107, c.793.]The second allegation relates to the 30 pieces of silver. I can understand the objection to the second section about the 30 pieces of silver.Do we understand for the record that you, Sir, are ruling that it is in order for the allegation that the Attorney-General is desperate for the Woolsack to stand and that it is the piece in relation to the 30 pieces of silver that must be withdrawn?
§ Mr. SpeakerSince the hon. Gentleman wants clarification on that point, I am forced to say to him that it is the last sentence to which I take exception.
§ Later—
§ Mr. John Mark Taylor (Solihull)Further to the point of order made by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Forth). Are we to take it from the earlier statement made by the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) that we may regard what he said earlier this afternoon as a precedent for a withdrawal?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Gentleman should keep his ears open, please. I have already said no.
§ Mr. Jerry Wiggin (Weston-super-Mare)Further to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (Mr. Taylor). If I understood your decision correctly, Mr. Speaker, you were in fact saying that the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) has not made a withdrawal of what he said.
§ Mr. SpeakerI did not say that. I said that it would not be taken as a precedent in making a withdrawal of something that had been said, and the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) finally—
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursUnreservedly.
§ Mr. Speaker—unreservedly, withdrew what had been said. It should not be taken as a precedent to carry on a debate. I hope that the House understands that.
§ Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson (Newbury)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Forgive me for not following your guidance entirely, but it seems to me that you are allowing the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell- Savours)—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I have dealt with the matter [Interruption.] Order. I am not prepared to say any more about it. It is not a precedent that should be followed by any other hon. Member and I will not allow it. [Interruption.] Order. I did not know that the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) would take as long as he did to make his withdrawal. When I saw him about this matter he told me that he would make a withdrawal, and he has done so. Let us leave it at that.
§ The Attorney-General (Sir Michael Havers)I should like to be in the position to thank the hon. Gentleman for his apology. You, Mr. Speaker, have ruled that this is not be be a precedent; in my view, that means that it was not a withdrawal, and I do not treat it as such. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."]
§ Mr. SpeakerIn order to clarify this matter, would the hon. Member for Workington be kind enough to repeat his unreserved withdrawal so that the House is in no doubt about it?
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursI have made it very clear that I unreservedly withdraw.