Points of Order (Hansard, 15 December 1986)

§ Mr. Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne, East)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I must raise a serious matter that arises out of Friday's debate on defence projects. During that debate the Under-Secretary of State for Defence Procurement seriously misled the House, and I seek your guidance, Mr. Speaker, on how the matter can be corrected.
The House will know that for some time I have challenged the integrity of the decision-making process over the auxiliary oil replinisher contract, and I specifically raised that matter with the new Under-Secretary of State. I asked him to explain why the designs were not to be released until January, despite the Prime Minister's assurance that they had been comprehensively costed in April 1986. The Under-Secretary of State replied:
I am sure that it was possible to produce a comprehensive costing of the ship without the detailed drawings, and we are waiting for them to come through".—[Official Report, 12 December 1986; Vol. 107, c. 726.] That cannot be correct, because, if it is, the Prime Minister must have misled the House last April.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence Procurement (Mr. Archie Hamilton)
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I stand by what I said on Friday, as it was factually correct. The hon. Gentleman will know that shipbuilding companies regularly quote fixed prices before all the drawings have been produced.

§ Mr. Nicholas Brown
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I am sorry, but we cannot have a further debate on this matter.

§ Sir Kenneth Lewis (Stamford and Spalding)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. My point of order relates to the important matter that is about to be discussed in a Cabinet Committee on Wednesday, I believe, and in Cabinet on Thursday about the question of the Nimrod and AWACS systems. As an ex-RAF man, one of the points that concerns me—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. That is very interesting, but it is not a point of order for me.

§ Sir Kenneth Lewis
Perhaps you will bear with me a minute, Mr. Speaker. We were the pioneers in radar—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman has been a Member of this place for even longer than I have, and he knows that what happens in Cabinet is not a matter for the Chair.

§ Sir Kenneth Lewis
Further to that, Mr. Speaker—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I do not think that I can help the hon. Gentleman.

§ Sir Kenneth Lewis
You might be able to, Mr. Speaker—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I honestly do not think that I can. I would love to be able to, but I do not think that I can.

§ Mr. Gerald Howarth (Cannock and Burntwood)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, North (Mr. McNamara) and the 781 hon. and learned Member for Leicester, West (Mr. Janner) have referred to contracts that relate to highly technical matters. Is it in order for hon. Members who are not experts in these matters and who really are laymen to presume to supplant the judgment of the experts?

§ Mr. Eric S. Heffer (Liverpool, Walton)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Is it on the same subject?

§ Mr. Heffer
Surely you would not stop an ex-member of the Royal Air Force from speaking in the House of Commons—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I would have to stop anyone, whether he was from the Royal Air Force, the Royal Navy or even the Indian cavalry, if the point of order was not a matter for the Chair.

§ Sir Kenneth Lewis
Further to that point of order—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I am on my feet. I must tell the hon. Member for Cannock and Burntwood (Mr. Howarth) that all that concerns me when I consider an application under Standing Order No. 20 is whether it is in order for the application to be made. It was perfectly in order for the two applications to be made today.