Higher Education (Hansard, 2 December 1986)

§ 2. Mr. Stan Thorne
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will make a statement on the levels of pay of non-academic and ancillary staff in higher education.

§ 14. Mr. Patchett
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will make a statement on the levels of pay of non-academic and ancillary staff in higher education.

§ 18. Mr. Eadie
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will make a statement on the levels of pay of non-academic and ancillary staff in higher education.

§ Mrs. Rumbold
The Government are not involved in pay negotiations for this group of staff and it is for employers to reach agreement on pay levels which they can afford, having regard to recruitment, retention and motivation.

§ Mr. Thorne
That answer tends to suggest that the Government consider that they have no responsibility in this field. That surprises me, and I should like the Minister to tell us what she proposes to do to overcome the problem that universities in particular presently face.

§ Mrs. Rumbold
The hon. Gentleman will know that a quantum of money goes to the universities. The pay bill that applies to both academic and non-academic staff must be regarded as one item within the overall resources that are agreed by the Government, and it is for the universities to decide how it is spent.

§ Mr. Patchett
Will the Minister accept that over 90 per cent. of manual and clerical workers in universitites are on almost poverty level wages for a full week's work? Is she prepared to reconsider her recent answer on this question and to do something about it?

§ Mrs. Rumbold
I have no doubt that a very important contribution is being made by that group of people, but I must reiterate that it is for the universities, within their overall resources, to decide their priorities and to allocate money accordingly.

§ Mr. Eadie
Is the Minister trying to tell the House that her Department and the Government escape responsibility for people on very low pay, which is the question that we are discussing? Does the Minister agree that 90 per cent. of those upon whom we are focusing our minds are receiving under £100 a week, and that two-thirds of the clerical staff receive no payment whatsoever for overtime? We are talking about very low pay and the Minister, on behalf of her Government, must accept some responsibility.

§ Mrs. Rumbold
It is quite obvious that the Opposition do not understand. The universities obtain a grant from the Government. It is then for the universities to negotiate within the proper forum the kind of pay agreement that they want. Within the totality of the money that is given, it is for the universities to decide their own priorities.

§ Mr. Patrick Thompson
As many of the ancillary and non-academic staff in universities are particularly concerned about matters involving the organisation of universities and the organisation of meetings at universities, many of my constituents who do these jobs are very worried about something that is happening today at the University of East Anglia. The Labour club there is being addressed by the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell), at a time when the University of East Anglia has asked for the postponement of a meeting that is to be addressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Billericay (Mr. Proctor). Does that not suggest double standards and is this not—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I should have thought that that question was miles wide of pay.

§ Mrs. Rumbold
I understand that my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (Mr. Walden) has written a letter to my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich, North (Mr. Thompson) and that he will be receiving an answer to the point that he has just raised.

§ Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
Will the Minister confirm that the Government announced that additional resources were to be made available for the universities? Will she also confirm that there is considerable confusion in the universities because they do not know how much each of them will receive, or how much the Government insist should be earmarked for academic and for non-academic salaries? It would be helpful if the Government would tell the universities the figure for academic salaries, so that the universities can decide whether any money will be available for the very low-paid groups of people who are in non-academic posts in universities. Will the Minister accept that the Opposition are appalled by the very low wages that are paid to some of the non-academic staff in universities?

§ Mrs. Rumbold
I register what the hon. Gentleman said about non-academic pay. The answer to his first question is that that matter will be decided at the beginning of next year. It is quite clear that the hon. Gentleman does not understand that the money is allocated to the universities and that it is for the universities to decide their priorities.

§ Mr. Bennett
But how much? The hon. Lady has not told the universities how much is available.

§ Mrs. Rumbold
They will learn how much money is to be made available for academic pay early next year. It is entirely up to individual universities to decide, with the proper unions, how the money is to be allocated for the restructuring of academic and non-academic staff.