HC Deb 25 April 1986 vol 96 cc630-1

Order for Second Reading read.

Hon. Members

Object.

Second Reading deferred till Friday 13 June.

Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North)

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speker. You may know which hon. Member makes an objection and from whom you accepted the objection in this matter but others do not. This is of great importance. The Bill affects millions of people in Britain and they have a right to know for what reason the Bill has been opposed yet again in the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

The hon. Gentleman will know that that matter has been raised many times before. The procedure is that, if I hear an objection, I take that objection. It does not matter from what source it comes. It is the hearing of the objection which matters. That is the procedure.

Mr. Corbyn

Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I understand and accept what you say, but the problem is that hon. Members are not aware who made the objection in this case. It is a matter of public record that an objection has been received. All other entries in Hansard are ascribed to an hon. Member and are so recorded. Why is it different in this case?

Mr. Deputy Speaker

I understand the hon. Gentleman's point. It is my job to carry out the rules of the House as they exist. If he wishes to have them changed, the correct procedure is for him to suggest that the Select Committee on Procedure should look at this point.

Mr. Norman Hogg (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Is it not the case that "Erskine May" lays down that the hon. Member who objects to a Bill is required to rise in his or her place when making an objection?

Mr. Deputy Speaker

No, that is not the position. As long as the objection is clearly made, the Chair is obliged to take it.

Mr. Robert N. Wareing (Liverpool, West Derby)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I should like your guidance on how that ruling has come about. As you rightly said, it has been raised before. Indeed, I have raised it myself in relation to a private Member's Bill to which I put my name some years ago. Since, for many people in Britian, there is no greater obscenity than that old people should go without fuel and light, which it is the object of this Bill to eradicate, we need an answer to the question whether people have a right to object or whether it is only by convention—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. I understand the hon. Gentleman's point. He has raised it before when I have been in the Chair. As I have said to the House, this is a well-established procedure and it is the job of the chair to carry out the procedures of the House. If hon. Members want to have those procedures changed, there is a course open to them. But it would be wholly wrong for me to, as it were, do a private enterprise operation and alter the procedures of the House. I must abide by the procedures which have been laid down by the House and that is exactly what I am doing.

Mr. Corbyn

Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. Is the hon. Member for Newham, North-West making a different point of order? I have dealt fully with that point of order.

Mr. Banks

Yes, Sir. That—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. Does the hon. Gentleman have a different point of order? If he does not, I am not prepared to rule a third time.

Mr. Banks

It is related, Sir, but it is different. The point that was made by my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, North (Mr.Corbyn) was that hon. Members are entitled, for their own information, to know who has raised an objection. That is the point.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

I have already dealt with that. If hon. Members do not like the existing procedures, I have explained the correct course which is open for them to follow.

Mr. Corbyn

Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I do not seek to challenge your ruling, but I wonder if any Conservative Members ought to catch your eye to identify themselves as being opposed to this progressive Bill.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

We are on the same point. I have given my ruling and there is nothing further I can add. I do understand the points which hon. Members are making and I have given a clear outline of the way in which they can proceed.