HC Deb 19 November 1985 vol 87 cc127-30
5. Mr. D. E. Thomas

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received about the funding of the Open University.

Mr. Brooke

Since the letter announcing the university's grant for 1985 and indicated grants for 1986 and 1987 was issued in February, we have received 90 letters. A petition, with some 160,000 signatures, has been handed in to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister by the Open University students' association.

Mr. Thomas

Does the Minister agree that these representations indicate support for the work of the university? How does a reduction in the funding of the Open University square with his Government's alleged commitment to adult and continuing education? Is not the university extremely cost-effective in terms of its distance learning techniques?

Mr. Brooke

The petition to which I have referred shows that there is keen support for the Open University. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State asked the Open University visiting committee to make further funding recommendations. Its report will be issued shortly and my right hon. Friend will then announce his decisions. Some of the calculations on cost-effectiveness take student support into account. The cost-effectiveness of the institution per se compares very well with, that of other higher education institutions.

Mr. Conway

Is my hon. Friend aware of the contribution made by the Open University to those areas, such as Shrewsbury in Shropshire in my constituency, that do not have a university within easy travelling distance and, therefore, must make the maximum use of Open University services? Is my hon. Friend further aware that curtailing those services hits not only those rural areas but the disabled community and would not be welcomed by either side of the House?

Mr. Brooke

I join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the manner in which the Open University has contributed to the spread of access throughout the country.

Mr. Donald Stewart

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this year there were seven applicants for every two places in Scotland and, no doubt, similar figures for the rest of Britain? Is he also aware that an efficiency study has shown that the Open University has been run efficiently? As the Secretary of State appears to think that the main aim of education is to produce more science and technology graduates, does the hon. Gentleman accept that more generous funding would enable the Open University to produce more such graduates?

Mr. Brooke

An efficiency study was carried out. It identified a number of areas in which savings could be made. The Open University has been pursuing them—

Mr. Campbell-Savours

They were small savings.

Mr. Brooke

They were between £2 million and £3.5 million. I congratulate the Open University on the movement in student ratios which means that 50 per cent. of students study science, engineering and technology courses. In the decisions that were announced earlier this year, the Government put forward a further £360,000 to sustain that movement.

Mr. Pawsey

How much funding for the Open University comes from private sources, especially industry?

Mr. Brooke

Of that part of the university's income which is grant and student income, 85 per cent. comes from the state. That is the percentage if one omits summer school fees. The figure is 81 per cent. if summer school fees are included. The Open University is to be warmly congratulated on the manner in which it has developed continuing education courses with industry.

Mr. Sheerman

Will the hon. Gentleman grasp the fact that, given the parlous state of the British economy, more highly trained people are needed? Because the Open University is a capital-intensive institution, it could take on 20,000 more students now and train them for the country, if it were not for the Government's parsimonious attitude. Will the hon. Gentleman heed Lord Briggs' statement just last week that; because of the expansion of the 30 to 60 age group, we need a second Open University? That is the size of the challenge. When will the Government wake up to what the Open University could do for our country?

Mr. Brooke

One would not think from that question that, in the five years between 1974 and 1979, when the hon. Gentleman's party was in power, there were 97,000 disappointed applicants, whereas in the past seven years of this Government there have been only 87,000 disappointed applicants.

6. Mr. Wallace

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many applications were received by the Open University for undergraduate places for the forthcoming academic year; and how many of these were unable to find a place; and how these figures compare with previous years.

Mr. Brooke

The Open University has received 56,000 applications for its undergraduate programme for 1986. It has not been able to offer places to 23,900 of those applicants. That is the highest number since 1976, when 28,800 could not be offered a place.

Mr. Wallace

Does the Minister accept that this has been a record year for applications? In response to the visiting committee's report, how does he expect to measure up to the legitimate expectations and hopes of many applicants, especially those in rural areas where there are no other immediate means of further education and training? Can he repeat the assurance given by his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to my hon. Friend the Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire (Mr. Kirkwood) on 25 June this year, when he said that no student has to wait more than one year to be admitted?

Mr. Brooke

Yes. In answer to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, I am delighted to say that, despite the scare noises that have been made about the fees currently being exerted by the Open University, applications continue to rise in the way that the hon. Gentleman described.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

The Minister means extorted.

Mr. Brooke

On the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's question, of course I recognise the need that exists in parts of the country, but the Open University will maintain its level of students in 1986 at its current level.

Mr. Cormack

How many of the applications were from people who wished to study the arts and the humanities? Will my hon. Friend take this opportunity to contradict the impression that is now abroad that the Government are somehow biased against those who wish to study the arts? Would that not be a strange and perverse attitude for a Tory Government to take?

Mr. Brooke

I am delighted to agree with my hon. Friend. The Government retain their support for the arts, which has always pervaded our party. Half of the present student intake is doing science, engineering and technology, and that figure has increased.

Mr. Canavan

Is the Minister aware that in Scotland, for example, there were over 7,000 applicants this year for only 2,000 places at the Open University? In view of the indisputable fact that the Tory Government's cuts are excluding thousands of potential students from their only chance of improving their education, is the Minister not ashamed of the fact that he is slamming shut the door of what was once called the Open University—one of the Labour Government's finest achievements'.

Mr. Brooke

The hon. Member may deploy his rhetoric for as long as he likes, but, as I said earlier, in a shorter period of time his Government disappointed more applicants than our Government have over a longer period.