§ 8. Mr. Nichollsasked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will introduce legislation to require that elections for trade union officers take place only by independently supervised ballots.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Employment (Mr. Peter Bottomley)The provisions of part 1 of the Trade Union Act 1984 on trade union elections come into effect on 1 October 1985. The legislation will for the first time introduce stringent safeguards concerning, for example, secrecy, freedom from intimidation and malpractice.
§ Mr. NichollsIf, as with the Transport and General Workers Union affair, it becomes clear—even within the largest trade unions—that the trade union movement cannot be trusted to conduct fair and independent elections, will my hon. Friend concede that our legislation might have to go further? Will he ensure that those elections take place under independent supervision?
§ Mr. BottomleyI think my hon. Friend will accept that independent supervision would virtually rule out workplace ballots, which have a record of far higher participation than postal ballots. I think that every hon. Member would agree that it is up to the trade unions to 611 ensure that their election procedures develop the trust and confidence that their members expect and that trade union leaders need if they are to carry any credibility.
§ Mr. HaynesIs not this response in relation to ballots for trade union officers a bit thick, coming as it does from the Tory Benches? Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that a fair amount of fiddling in the election of Conservative university students has gone on, especially at Durham, not many years ago?
§ Mr. BottomleyThe answer to the hon. Gentleman's first question is no. I do not have enough information to comment on his second question.
§ Mr. LeighWould my hon. Friend be somewhat worried if people voting in workplace ballots were being handed so-called branch recommendations telling them to vote for candidates which did not mention the fact that they were all members of the Communist party, as has been happening this week in the Civil and Public Services Association elections? Does that not prove the need for independently supervised secret postal ballots?
§ Mr. BottomleyIt demonstrates the need for moderates to get themselves organised and put up for election. The interesting point about the election to which my hon. Friend referred is that there were three slates of candidates. It will be interesting to see who won.
§ Mr. NellistGiven the Minister's and his party's touching, if bogus, concern for democracy, when will he legislate for or promote the introduction of democracy into the Tory party for the election of its chairman or leader, or for the election of newspaper editors?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The question relates to trade union officers. I do not believe that any of the people mentioned by the hon. Member are trade union officers.
§ Mr. Robert AtkinsDoes my hon. Friend recall that the statement made by the hon. Member——
§ Mr. Nellistrose——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member for Coventry, South-East (Mr. Nellist) has been here long enough and is ingenious enough to get his question in order. None of the officers whom he mentioned has anything to do with trade unions.
§ Mr. NellistConsider the——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder.
§ Mr. AtkinsIs my hon. Friend aware that the legislation which comes into force on 1 October is some of the legislation that the hon. Member for St. Helens, North (Mr. Evans), supported by the deputy leader of the Labour party, said would be repealed following the election of a Labour Government? Does he not think that that is a ridiculous state of affairs?
§ Mr. BottomleyYes, Sir. The Opposition are likely to discover that they will have to change their tune. The evidence shows that almost without exception trade union members want the chance to take part in free and fair elections held without malpractice and intimidation, and with a fair choice of candidates.
§ Mr. PenhaligonDoes the Minister believe in mass ballots, or, If they take place without independent supervision and scrutiny, that they can ever be above suspicion?
§ Mr. BottomleyThe hon. Gentleman might consult some of the other members of the alliance, who cheerfully voted against such proposals when they were first put forward. We need to strike the right balance between improved participation and ensuring that election procedures are not just fiddle-proof but incompetence-proof.
§ Mr. GreenwayIs my hon. Friend aware that I have seen the membership cards of many members of the Transport and General Workers Union in my constituency which were stamped "GS" last June to show that they had voted in the ballot for a new general secretary, although they had never seen a ballot paper or signed or voted? That is something that must be tackled. Will my hon. Friend throw the matter straight back to those members of the Labour party who ask "Where is the evidence"?
§ Mr. PrescottThe hon. Gentleman should take it to the TGWU if that is his attitude.
§ Mr. GreenwayI have done that.
§ Mr. BottomleyIf I may answer, rather than the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott), it is because of such queries that the TGWU has decided to re-run the ballot. My hon. Friend should advise his constituents to take up the matter with TGWU headquarters. I know that Moss Evans wants to investigate any such complaints.
§ Mr. SkinnerDoes the Minister understand that the next Labour Government will have every justification for repealing the laws on trade union ballots and bringing them into line with doctors, lawyers and those sponsored members of the Liberal party and the SDP who are backed by £188,000 from the British School of Motoring?
§ Mr. BottomleyNo, Sir. It is important to ask ordinary trade union members their views and the procedures that they want. Those unions which have procedures which are above reproach are those which have the greatest support of their members.