Engagements (Hansard, 26 March 1985)

§ Ql. Mr. Fatchett
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 26 March.

§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

§ Mr. Fatchett
In her weekend speech the Prime Minister referred to various critics of the Government's policy as cuckoos. Will she explain whether that term is now extended to the growing number of critics in her own party? Will she also explain whether she feels that characterising the Government's critics as cuckoos is consistent with the language of reconciliation to which she has made recent references?

§ The Prime Minister
The answer to the first part of that supplementary question is no. We have the occasional grouse, but nothing else.

§ Mr. Kenneth Carlisle
Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the most welcome aspects of the Budget is the Government's intention to simplify the tax and social security systems, so enabling people at last to understand how they can interact, and enabling us at last to eliminate the unemployment trap? Will she ensure that this necessary and fundamental reform is pushed ahead without delay?

§ The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for those remarks. We shall try to push ahead as fast as we can. It is particularly important in that it will help many employers to take on more young people than they are doing at present.

§ Mr. Kinnock
There are now more than 1 million unemployed 18 to 24-year-olds in Britain. Apparently the Prime Minister will be seeing 25 of them at 10 Downing Street this afternoon. When she meets them, will she look them in the eye and honestly say to them, as she said on Saturday in Newcastle: A bright and confident future beckons"? If she says that to them, will she expect them to believe her?

§ The Prime Minister
I look forward to seeing a number of young people on a private visit to No. 10. I shall indeed point out that the economy is expanding, that investment is at an all-time record, that standards of living are at an all-time high and that we are making great extensions to the youth training scheme, from which I hope they will benefit. I shall also have there a number of people who will, I hope, be able to answer their questions and be of practical assistance.

§ Mr. Kinnock
That cuts no ice, and it cuts no dole queues, either. Does the Prime Minister not yet realise that until she makes radical changes in economic policy—as many, including sensible people in her own party, are advising—there will be no hope of offering real jobs to young people? Will she have the courage to say that direct to them this afternoon?

§ The Prime Minister
No, because I believe that the right hon. Gentleman is wrong. He does not deny that output is at an all-time record and that investment is at an all-time high. I assume that he supports the youth training scheme. We shall get more jobs when we have more people producing goods and services which everyone will buy. [Interruption.] If the right hon. Gentleman knows how to do it, perhaps he will start a business.

§ Mr. McCrindle
I welcome what my right hon. Friend has said about the interrelation between taxation and the social security system. Will she take this opportunity to confirm that while the reviews which have been undertaken aim at gaining better value for money within a £40 billion budget, at least as important will he an attempt on behalf of the Government to pay more to the most deserving people within society, while reviewing benefits which arguably are being paid to those who are in less need?

§ The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend knows, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services has a major review of social services under way. That review will be published, and it will be for the House to debate it. In the meantime, I take account of what my hon. Friend has said. I think he was saying that quite a number of people seem to get perhaps more than they need, while others, who are most deserving, perhaps do not get sufficient.

§ Mr. Steel
Following the massacre in South Africa at the weekend, does the Prime Minister agree that 25 years on from Sharpeville all the cosmetic improvements in that country do not hide the fundamental evil and injustice of apartheid? Apart from lecturing the South African ambassador, what proposals has she to help end the systematic oppression of the majority of the population?

§ The Prime Minister
My right hon. and learned Friend the Foreign Secretary issued a statement and called in the ambassador of South Africa to make it clear that we were gravely concerned at the events on the anniversary of 209 Sharpeville and, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, to reaffirm once again that one cannot distinguish between people on the basis of colour. We support and uphold the resolution of the United Nations. I think it particularly sad and deplorable that this event came just at a time when other things seemed to be moving. For example, it was only a few days earlier that we had heard that the policy which we totally deplored of forced removals had been suspended. That was good news. Therefore, we were particularly concerned about the shootings.

§ Q2. Mr. Tony Banks
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 26 March.

§ The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

§ Mr. Banks
Is the Prime Minister aware that fires are still raging in the Galapagos Islands and that on Isabela 500 giant tortoises are now seriously at risk? [Interruption.] Hon. Members on the Government Benches may find this amusing, but I assure them that it is a serious matter. May I repeat the question for the benefit of the Prime Minister? Is she aware of the fires in the Galapagos Islands, and is she aware also that on Isabela 500 giant tortoises are at risk? The Government of Ecuador have asked for international assistance. In view of the close links between this country and the Galapagos Islands, what British Government resources will the Prime Minister make available to rescue the giant tortoises and other endangered species?

§ The Prime Minister
I am very much aware of the feeling in the House and elsewhere about this matter. We shall consider the hon. Gentleman's request.

§ Q3. Mr. Forth
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 26 March.

§ The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

§ Mr. Forth
Does my right hon. Friend agree that unanimity is rare in politics? Will she, therefore, undertake that when my right hon. Friend the Member for Mole Valley (Mr. Baker) completes his review of the financing of local government, and the equivalent review north of the border is completed, we will move to a rapid solution of the local government finance problem, regardless of whether there is total agreement on any one solution?

§ The Prime Minister
Those studies, both on the rating system and on the reform of local government finance, are under way. I hope that we shall be able to come to an agreed solution. My hon. Friend is right. If everyone sticks to his own pet scheme, we shall not get anywhere. I hope that we shall be able to bring forward proposals which will command sufficient support to put them through.

§ Mr. Heffer
Is the right hon. Lady aware that when, later this afternoon, she meets the young unemployed from Merseyside, they are not likely, because of their bitter experience of many years of unemployment, to believe that there is an expanding economy? Does she agree with the view expressed by Lord Alport yesterday in the Daily Telegraph, that the Conservative party is now a faction and not a real Conservative party, or is she prepared to accept the advice of her right hon. Friend the Member for Old 210 Bexley and Sidcup (Mr. Heath), who suggested that the time had come for a change in policy to begin to deal with unemployment?

§ The Prime Minister
We shall continue the policies announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and enlarged upon during the several Budget debates, which were well received and won excellent majorities in the House upon their conclusion.

§ Mr. Yeo
Does my right hon. Friend agree that if the teaching profession wishes to enjoy a higher level of public esteem the best thing that its members can do is to end this damaging action, which is hitting the interests of the worst-off children, and get back to work full-time?

§ The Prime Minister
Yes. I thought that Lady Warnock made interesting remarks during the Dimbleby lecture, pointing out that if teachers act in this way they will forfeit their prestige and the esteem in which they have always been held.

§ Q4. Mr. Chris Smith
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 26 March.

§ The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

§ Mr. Smith
Has the Prime Minister had a chance to read the report of today of the Rating and Valuation Association, which reveals that the average rate rise in England and Wales for the coming financial year will be 9 per cent.? Has the right hon. Lady noticed that this has happened even with all the paraphernalia of rate-capping targets, penalties, grant-related expenditure assessments and similar controls which her Government have introduced? Will the right hon. Lady now have the honesty to admit that the real reason for such a large increase is the reduction in rate support grant to London boroughs, from 61 to 48 per cent., under her Government? Will the right hon. Lady tell the ratepayers that she is responsible for their rate increases?

§ The Prime Minister
I have not read that report. I heard a comment from an hon. Member from a sedentary position that our great problems with rating are centred on Scotland. If councils' spending had continued at its previous rate of increase, it would now be £4 billion higher. The growth in councils' spending has dramatically slowed over the past five years, increasing by no more than it did in an average single year in the 1970s. In fact, ratepayers have a great deal for which to thank the Government for reducing Government expenditure. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will take notice of the fact that the average precept is 30p higher under Labour county councils than it is under Conservative county councils.

§ Mr. Sims
Is my right hon. friend aware that there was warm applause in the country as well as in the hall for her weekend speech, when she emphasised the importance of the wealth creators in our society and the fact that responsibility for law and order is not restricted to the police and the Government? As the best hope for this country's future lies in my right hon. Friend's policies and philosophies, will she and her Ministers continue to repeat this message loudly and clearly throughout the country?

§ The Prime Minister
It is a message which most people understand, because it is common sense that one must have policies which pursue the creation of wealth, 211 before that wealth can be distributed or more jobs can be created. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that question.

§ Q5. Mr. Gareth Wardell
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 26 March.

§ The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

§ Mr. Wardell
As dental charges will increase from 1 April to £17—which means that 100 per cent. of the costs will have to be borne by the patient—and as 40 per cent. of all the extra costs above £17, to a maximum of £115, will have to be paid by the patient, will the Prime Minister give advice to those people whose income is only slightly above the supplementary benefit level, the occupational pensions allowance and the family income supplement on how they must pay these extra charges?

§ The Prime Minister
As the hon. Gentleman is aware, 46 per cent. of chargeable treatment is given free and those who pay contribute on average 60 per cent. of the cost, which is less than the maximum charge. The hon. Gentleman's question implies that the increase in charges will result in a reduction in the number of people taking dental treatment. That is not so. The number of courses of 212 dental treatment is up from 27 million in 1979 to 31 million now. I think that most people would put dental treatment fairly high on their list of priority spending.

§ Q7. Mr. Stanbrook
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 26 March.

§ The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave a few moments ago.

§ Mr. Stanbrook
May I draw my right hon. Friend's attention to the apparent willingness of the British Government, in company with the minority of countries, such as Greece and Denmark, to stand aside from developments in the European Community designed to make it more effective? Is this not a dangerous tendency? Will my right hon. Friend instruct her Ministers at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to promise full support to the Community in its proposals for progress for the benefit of us all, and not to drag their feet?

§ The Prime Minister
We have taken a leading part in all deliberations on the Community, which are resulting in a much better financial structure and a much more realistic policy for agriculture. As my hon. Friend knows, we are now attempting to persuade the Community to complete the internal market and take a number of steps towards freeing trade, which will be of great help to this country.