HC Deb 18 March 1985 vol 75 cc617-9
3. Mr. Pike

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he plans any changes in his Department's arrangements for monitoring the nature and extent of concessionary fares schemes.

Mr. David Mitchell

I see no need for the Department to collect information centrally. Under the Transport Bill, local authorities establishing concessionary fare schemes will have to publish details and supply copies on request.

Mr. Pike

Will the Minister take the opportunity, during the passage of the Transport Bill, to ensure that no elderly or disabled person suffers any detriment as a result of the Bill? Would it not be a good starting point to ensure that all pensioners and disabled people have the same concession as that which is good enough for people in London?

Mr. Mitchell

It is for each elected local authority to decide what it believes to be the right priorities for the people in its area. As the hon. Gentleman well knows, I cannot give the sort of undertaking for which he is asking. I can only give him the undertaking that, if the Bill does not go through, the chronic decline of the bus industry will continue, leaving more and more people isolated without bus services. With the Bill on the statute book, there will at least be a substantial opportunity for the revitalisation of the industry.

Mr. Brandon-Bravo

Will my hon. Friend reiterate, perhaps for the umpteenth time, that Conservative Members are completely committed to the continuance of concessionary fares for the elderly? Will he take the opportunity to draw to the attention of his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment the fact that local authorities of another persuasion are still spending ratepayers' money advertising the fact that the Bill will abolish concessionary fares?

Mr. Mitchell

I join my hon. Friend in confirming that local authorities up and down the country will wish to continue concessionary fares.

I also join my hon. Friend in condemning the scandalous way in which ratepayers' money is being used to finance party political propaganda against the Transport Bill. The hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Pike), who represents an area which has spent over £130,000 of ratepayers' money campaigning against the measure and frightening old-age pensioners, should be ashamed of what is happening in his authority.

Mr. Rogers

I shall not be drawn into the question of money which the Government are spending on a measure of an overtly political nature. Apart from any arrangements for concessionary fares, does the Minister accept that the removal of £48 million that was available as subsidy for the aged and elderly will mean a continuation of the Government's mean and spiteful policy towards that sector of the community?

Mr. Mitchell

I trust that the hon. Gentleman is not intentionally confusing the House by comparing things which are not alike. He is comparing the outturn in one year with the provision in another year. As he will well know, the two rarely have much relationship to each other.

Sir John Page

Is my hon. Friend aware that unscrupulous people in the London area are still trying to spread alarm and despondancy among pensioners and the disabled about the future of concessionary fares after the GLC is abolished? Will he make a further authoritative statement on the subject of concessionary fares in London, underlining the fall-back position enshrined in the Bill?

Mr. Mitchell

I can confirm that there is no such threat in the London area. I am glad to take the opportunity of reassuring my hon. Friend, and, through him, the many thousands of people who have been scandalously and unreasonably frightened in the matter.

Mrs. Dunwoody

If the Minister is really serious, what objection can he have to writing a guarantee of this kind into the Transport Bill? If we are to take him at his word, let him propose a Government clause to make sure that concessionary fares will be not only monitored but retained. If he does that, then and only then shall we believe that they are to be protected.

Mr. Mitchell

I would not wish to launch into such an attack upon the rights of local authorities — [HON. MEMBERS "Oh".]—to make their own decisions in the light of their own circumstances and what they believe to be the right priorities for people in their areas.