§ 43. Mr. Canavanasked the Solicitor-General for Scotland how many people have been (a) arrested, (b) charged, (c) prosecuted and (d) convicted in Scotland as a result of incidents related to the miners' strike.
§ 47. Mr. Hirstasked the Solicitor-General for Scotland how many people in Scotland have been successfully prosecuted for offences arising from the miners' strike.
§ The Solicitor-General for Scotland (Mr. Peter Fraser)As at 6 March 1985, 1,504 persons had been arrested, 1,483 persons had been charged by the police and proceedings have been instituted against 1,046 persons. Five hundred and eighty-three persons had been convicted as a result of incidents related to the miners' strike, but there are a number of cases still to come to trial.
§ Mr. CanavanIf the Crown Office is unwilling to drop all pending charges as a gesture of reconciliation, will the Solicitor-General at least instruct the procurators fiscal that there is no need to report to the National Coal Board every case involving a miner—otherwise, they are liable to be punished twice for the same alleged offence? Does the Solicitor-General agree with the chief constables of Central region and Fife that tension in the coalfields would be greatly reduced if Albert Wheeler was seen to be more willing to reinstate sacked miners?
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandThe basis on which people have been charged in connection with offences arising out of the miners' strike is exactly the same basis on which charges are brought against other people in the courts for the whole range of criminal activities, quite regardless of the miners' strike. As far as I can ascertain, about 251 cases still have to be brought to the courts in Scotland. I hope that they will be dealt with during the next two or three months.
I must emphasise that the traditional role of the prosecutor in Scotland ends once a conviction or an aquittal is secured. It would be a wholly unacceptable departure from that role if I were to become involved in other matters subsequent to that, or, indeed, if my noble and learned friend the Lord Advocate were to do so.
§ Mr. HirstDoes my hon. and learned Friend agree that his answer confirms the highly disagreeable nature of the violence and intimidation that sustained the miners' strike in Scotland? Does he agree that the National Coal Board is right to refuse to grant an amnesty to those convicted properly in the courts of crimes of violence and destruction of property?
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandThe matter of dismissal by the NCB is entirely a matter for the NCB. As my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State, the Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart), has already said, if the dismissed miners take exception to that, they have another remedy available to them. From what I heard earlier, it would be quite wrong to trivialise some of the offences committed during the miners' strike or to pretend in any way that they were not serious. Rather surprisingly, unlike the Leader of the Opposition, some Scottish Members of Parliament seem to be under the misapprehension that there has been no violence and no serious offences arising out of the miners' strike.
§ Mr. MillanDoes the Solicitor-General for Scotland not realise that it is not so much what is happening in the courts that is causing widespread anxiety, as the action of the NCB in Scotland? Why do Ministers not stop being apologists for the NCB and make it clear that it would be in everyone's interest to reduce the tension, bitterness and resentment in the Scottish coalfields and the surrounding areas, and try to encourage people to live together again in a civilised manner at the end of this difficult dispute? Ministers have a responsibility, and we are asking them to exercise it.
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandAs the right hon. Gentleman fully appreciates, it has never been the role of the public prosecutor in Scotland to become involved beyond the stage of conviction or acquittal. The right hon. Gentleman, of all people, should appreciate that if the Government were to say at this stage that the 200-odd cases that are still to come to court should be withdrawn, we would be adopting a political stance as unacceptable as would have been an initial approach to the cases on a political basis.
§ Mr. Bill WalkerWhen we consider the cases that have come before the courts and been decided, and those that have still to come to court, must we not bear in mind the public's attitude to the many policemen who were badly injured in carrying out their duties? The public expect such matters to be dealt with properly.
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandYes, indeed. A considerable number of police officers in Scotland were injured during the course of that unhappy industrial action. The offences have not been trivial. For instance, an iron bar was thrown through the window of a three-year-old child's bedroom and landed on the bed. Such matters are not to be swept aside and forgotten. [Interruption.] The courts should consider such cases and should consider the question of innocence or guilt, and it is for the courts—not for hon. Members—to impose the necessary fines or terms of imprisonment.
§ Mr. StrangDoes the Solicitor-General for Scotland recall the representations that he received from my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Mr. Eadie), and the meeting that he had with the hon. Member for Edinburgh, Leith (Mr. Brown) and myself, about the position of Mr. David Hamilton, the chairman of the Lothian strike committee, who languished for nine weeks in jail and was then found not guilty? Will the Government recognise that the truth is that the NCB management in Scotland wishes to sack people because they were active in the strike and not because of anything else that they have done? That is why the Government and the NCB are isolated on this matter. When will there be some change in the situation?
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandI recall that meeting, at which I gave the hon. Gentleman an undertaking that the matter would be brought to court as quickly as possible, as indeed it was. I cannot see why the hon. Gentleman takes exception to that. Mr. Hamilton had the opportunity to be tried before a jury. He was acquitted. So far as I am concerned, the matter ends there.
§ Mr. DewarWill the Solicitor-General for Scotland accept that, sadly, he is misrepresenting the Opposition's case? Our case is that there are undoubtedly a number of people who, by any yardstick, have not been involved in serious crime, assaults on fellow workers or destruction of 301 property, but who have been convicted on charges that have attracted only admonitions or small fines; and have been dismissed. Unless there is a proper review procedure based upon justice in individual cases, as there seems to be in other NCB areas, people in Scotland will retain the unpalatable and unacceptable impression that men have been sacked for who they are and not for what they have done.
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandIf anyone is seeking to misrepresent the situation, it is the hon. Gentleman. He knows perfectly well that I have neither responsibility for, nor any involvement with, the chairman of the NCB either on a national or a Scottish basis. My concern is the prosecution of crime in Scotland. If the hon. Gentleman has any complaint to make about any particular case, he should make it to me. So far as I am aware, no one has yet made such a complaint. If the hon. Gentleman is saying that we have been involved politically in the prosecution of those people, he has made an extremely serious allegation.
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandThe hon. Gentleman says that that is not the point, but he has raised it with me this Question Time.