§ 33. Mr. Willie W. Hamiltonasked the Lord Privy Seal if he will refer to the Select Committee on Procedure the possibility of initiating an experiment in the use of secret ballots in the voting procedures of the House.
§ Mr. BiffenNo, Sir.
§ Mr. HamiltonThat is a very disappointing reply. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this would be a much more exciting place if we had some secret ballots, as Divisions would be much less predictable? Is he aware that there is now a reign of terror on the Tory side of the House, operated by the Whips' Office? Is he further aware that at least 100 Conservative Members are straining at the leash to express their deep disquiet at the Government's policies? Why do he and the Government urge the NUM and other unions to have secret ballots when we seem to be frightened of them here?
§ Mr. BiffenAs ever, I am touched by news of the effective tyranny of the Whips' Office, and I now realise that my daily Fleet street diet of Tory dissent and rebellion is entirely an illusion fostered by the masters of Fleet street——
§ Mr. Rogers"Reading."
§ Mr. BiffenI am not reading at all; this is absolutely from the heart. The hon. Gentleman might to wish draw certain facile comparisons with secret ballots outside this House, but for generations we have proudly proclaimed that we vote openly, on the basis of accountability to our electorates. To do what the hon. Gentleman wishes would simply be to reverse centuries of history.
§ Mr. GreenwayWould not secret voting within the House lessen accountability to our electorate, as my right hon. Friend has said, thereby diminishing democracy in the mother of Parliaments?
§ Mr. BiffenAbsolutely. As there is already mass puzzlement in this place about why the vote does not follow the voice, how much more would speculation be fanned if we adopted the suggestion of the hon. Member for Fife, Central (Mr. Hamilton).
§ Mr. SkinnerIs the Leader of the House aware that on this occasion I agree with his healthy attitude to representative democracy? I very much favour this House continuing what I call the British Leyland voting system, with one lot going to one side of the field, known as the Lobby; the other lot going to the other corner of the field, known as the Lobby; and with shop stewards, known as the Whips, herding people in. At the end of the day everyone is accountable for what he does. Long may it continue. Let us try to extend the system wherever we can, including within the trade unions, and let us throw out the Bills which the right hon. Gentleman has stupidly supported during the past two or three years.
§ Mr. BiffenI am so glad to have that warm endorsement from the hon. Gentleman. I would only say that us grammar school boys must stick together.
§ Mr. ForthWould my right hon. Friend be prepared to reconsider this matter on humanitarian grounds, as perhaps the only effective method of protecting Opposition Members from their general management committees would be to have some secret ballots in this House?
§ Mr. BiffenBut general management committees are such that nothing can save hon. Members from them.
§ Mr. RogersGiven the right hon. Gentleman's grave concern for public accountability, will he suggest that his hon. Friends give up all their part-time jobs and start doing their jobs as Members of Parliament full time?
§ Mr. BiffenI would gladly take issue with the hon. Gentleman on that point, but it goes very much wider than the original question.