HC Deb 11 March 1985 vol 75 cc16-7
35. Sir David Price

asked the Minister for the Civil Service whether he will open discussions with the Civil Service unions to establish a basic code of confidentiality governing relations between Ministers and officials.

The Minister of State, Treasury (Mr. Barney Hayhoe)

This aspect of relations between Ministers and civil servants was dealt with in the recent note on the duties and responsibilities of civil servants, issued by the head of the Home Civil Service on 26 February. I understand that he has agreed to meet the Civil Service unions for a discussion.

Sir David Price

Will my hon. Friend take the earliest opportunity to impress upon the Civil Service unions the fact that the maintenance of confidentiality of Government information and discussion is a key to the implicit social contract between a permanent civil, servant and the political Ministers of the day of whatever party? In other words, if civil servants want permanent jobs, they must respect the confidentiality of the Government of the day and not seek the privilege of leaking to the press aspects of that Government's policy which they do not like.

Mr. Hayhoe

I certainly endorse my hon. Friend's comments.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

When a civil servant witnesses the deliberate deception of Parliament for whatever purpose, what should he do about it? Should not that be embodied in a code of confidentiality?

Mr. Hayhoe

I presume that the hon. Gentleman is talking of largely hypothetical circumstances. Where a conflict exists in the mind of a civil servant, the note to which I have referred gives guidance on the action that he or she should take.

Mr. Latham

Will my hon. Friend confirm that unless we get this matter right and the Cabinet Secretary's minute is taken seriously in future, there will be growing pressure for what many of us would regard as an unwelcome development, that is, for Ministers to have European-style cabinet offices around them, filled by political appointments?

Mr. Hayhoe

It is important that the whole of the Civil Service should take due note of the restatement of what has been the practice for many decades. I agree with my hon. Friend that it would be a grave mistake to move towards a political Civil Service.

Mr. Foot

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it would have been wiser for the consultations with the unions to have taken place before the document was issued? Since that was not done and the proper procedures were infringed, will he guarantee that if the trade unions wish to make representations about altering parts of the document the Government will be prepared to consider it?

Mr. Hayhoe

I have already made it clear in my initial answer that the head of the Home Civil Service, Sir Robert Armstrong, has agreed to meet the Council of Civil Service Unions on that matter. Obviously, if the council wishes to see me or another relevant Minister that can be arranged.

Mr. Soley

Is it not right in principle that civil servants should be protected from instructions that may lead them to deceive the House? If they were not so protected, would they not be guilty of subversion in the sense of trying to overthrow the properly elected representatives? Cannot the Minister see the dangers and the trap that he sets himself if he does not give civil servants protection?

Mr. Hayhoe

If the hon. Gentleman were to read carefully the note that Sir Robert Armstrong circulated, he would find that that dilemma should not arise.