HC Deb 07 March 1985 vol 74 cc1160-1
13. Mr. Flannery

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, how many people have been (a) killed or (b) wounded by plastic or rubber bullets used by the security forces in Northern Ireland since 1968.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Nicholas Scott)

Since the introduction of rubber baton rounds in 1970, and plastic baton rounds in 1973, 14 people have died as a result of their use by the security forces in Northern Ireland. Since 17 March 1981, when records were first collated, 249 people are recorded as having been injured by them.

Mr. Flannery

May I place on record my horror at the killings in Newry?

Those weapons are indiscriminate. Innocent people, including children, are often killed and blinded by them. Does the Secretary of State not think that the use of such weapons antagonises even further some sections of the minority community and results in more violence than there would otherwise be?

Mr. Scott

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's first remarks. I fundamentally disagree with the second part. We never cease to look for an alternative to plastic baton rounds, but if he is asking me to support a policy that puts the security forces in a position, when they are faced with serious rioting, of resorting to lead bullets or being overwhelmed, I do not support any such policy.

Dr. Mawhinney

Does my hon.Friend agree that the best way for people to protect themselves against injury or death from plastic or rubber bullets is for them voluntarily to move away from any area of riot or disturbance in which such weapons might necessarily be used?

Mr. Scott

My hon. Friend has a good point. If he studies the statistics of the firing of baton rounds he will see that they closely follow the incidence of rioting in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Maginnis

Does the Minister accept that we are rather surprised that the Secretary of State misunderstood my last question this afternoon? I was referring—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member must ask a supplementary question on this question, not on his last question.

Mr. Maginnis

I was referring to those who, naively, like the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mr. Flannery), and maliciously, like the hon. Member for Islington, North (Mr. Corbyn), ask unhelpful questions. What is the Minister's opinion of their absence on Monday when the Secretary of State was making a statement about the killings in Newry?

Mr. Scott

If I understood that the hon. Gentleman was referring to those who all too often in the House, when any action or policy by the security forces seems to be effective against the terrorists, get on the coat tails of the propagandists and support them, I wholeheartedly support the point that he made.