Diocese of Durham (Hansard, 4 March 1985)

§ 20. Mr. Robert B. Jones
asked the hon. Member for Wokingham, as representing the Church Commissioners, what was the number of clergy receiving remuneration in the Diocese of Durham in each of the last five years.

§ The Second Church Estates Commissioner, Representing Church Commissioners (Sir William van Straubenzee)
From 1980, as at 31 December, the number of full-time clergymen was 299, 292, 298, 307 and 307.

§ Mr. Jones
Is my hon. Friend aware that it is not numbers that count, but the quality of leadership, in putting over the message of the Church? Is he aware that there is widespread dismay among lay members of the Church of England at the quality of leadership given by the Bishop of Durham, with his constant espousal of beliefs which are not those of the Christian Church?

§ Sir William van Straubenzee
It would be helpful if my hon. Friend were to read the remarkable speech by the Archbishop of Canterbury when the subject of doctrine was being debated by the General Synod on 13 February. I shall send him a copy. I must not take up the time of the House quoting from it, but the general message is one of which my hon. Friend would approve.

Mr. Haffer
Is it not a matter for the Church of England, not the House of Commons, how many priests there are in the Durham diocese? Is it not time that the House of Commons stopped messing about with the internal affairs of the Anglican Church? Many of us in the Anglican Church think that it is time we decided our own affairs, without Jews, Methodists, Moslems and all sorts of other people interfering in our internal affairs.

§ Sir William van Straubenzee
The hon. Gentleman undoubtedly reflects a point of view widely shared in the Church, but at the moment the Church Commissioners are answerable to the House and it is for them only that I answer, although the ingenuity of hon. Members is such that a good deal is often hung on that.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The question is about the diocese of Durham.

§ Mr. Adley
In view of the figures that my hon. Friend has given for Durham, is it not clear that at least in the Church of England in Durham there is no rising unemployment? Are the people of Durham getting good benefit from the extra people involved?

§ Sir William van Straubenzee
I am perfectly certain that in relation to those to whom the answer refers the answer is emphatically yes.

§ Mr. Merlyn Rees
Will the hon. Gentleman take into account the fact that the Bishop of Durham served in Leeds before he went to Durham? Last week I asked people there—whether Moslem or anything else—what they thought of the Bishop of Durham and I was told that the chap shows that he cares for the people of Durham and whatever one's political views, that is a good thing for a clergyman.

§ Sir William van Straubenzee
Yes. I do not want to enter into public comment about a Member of another place, but all hon. Members understand that sometimes the words that we use when we are in a position of authority have to be carefully chosen if they are not to be misinterpreted.