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Lords amendment: No. 12, in page 31, leave out lines 32 to 35 and insert—
52C.—(1) The taking out or the transfer of the benefit of a policy of insurance or a number of such policies, or the entry into or the transfer of the benefit of an annuity contract or a number of such contracts, if it takes place after the commencement of this section. only discharges trustees or managers of an occupational pension scheme from their liability, or any part of their liability.
§ Mr. WhitneyI beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerIt will be convenient for the House to consider at the same time the following Lords amendments:
§ No. 13, in page 31, line 40, at beginning insert -for or".
§
No. 14, in page 31, line 40, leave out from "person" to end of line 43 and insert
in a case where and to the extent that subsection (2) below has effect.
§
No. 15, in page 31, line 44, at end insert
at the time an earner's pensionable service terminates or at any later time
§
No. 16, in page 31, line 49, after "provided" insert
for or in respect of him
§
No. 17, in page 32, line 1, leave out
, after an earner's pensionable service terminates
§ No. 18, in page 32, line 4, leave out "(a),"
§
No. 19, in page 32, line 8, at end insert—
(2A) Where before the commencement of this section—
provided for or in respect of him by an occupational pension scheme was appropriately secured,
the trustees or managers of the scheme shall be deemed to have been discharged from their liability, so far as what they were liable to provide was so secured, at the time when it was first so secured.
§
No. 20, in page 32, line 15, leave out from beginning to "authorised" in line 16 and insert—
(a) the insurance company with which it is, or was. taken out or entered into is, or was, at the relevant time.
§
No. 21, in page 32, line 18, after "1982" insert
or any similar previous enactment
§ No. 22, in page 32, leave out lines 20 to 31.
§
No. 23, in page 32, line 33, leave out "prescribed conditions" and insert
conditions which satisfy such requirements as may be prescribed".
§
No. 24, in page 32, line 36, leave out "prescribed conditions" and insert
conditions which satisfy such requirements as may be prescribed".
§
No. 25, in page 32, line 36, at end insert—
and
(e) it satisfies such other requirements as may be prescribed.
§ No. 26, in page 32, leave out lines 39 to 41.
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No. 27, in page 33, line 8, at end insert—
(4A) In subsection (3)(a) above, "the relevant time" means the time when the policy of insurance was taken out or the annuity contract was entered into or, as the case may be, when the benefit of the policy or contract was transferred.
§
No. 28, in page 33, line 44, leave out from "where" to end of line 45 and insert
section 52C(2A) above has effect.
§
No. 29, in page 33, line 47, at beginning insert—
section 52C(2A) above does not have effect and".
§ No. 30, in page 33, line 48, leave out "(a)" and insert "(b)".
§ Mr. WhitneyOur consultations with experts in the pensions world have persuaded us that there are deficiencies in the provisions in new sections 52C and 52D which the Bill adds to the Social Security Pensions Act 1975. I must admit that these provisions have given us considerable trouble, and I record our gratitude for the help and advice that we have been given by the pensions experts.
The amendments clarify the position—a position which we had always intended to achieve in this part of the Bill—relating to the extent to which trustees can discharge their liability when the benefit rights of early leavers are secured by an insurance policy.
We are dealing with a number of amendments and I am conscious of the fact that this is not the first time that it has been necessary for us to amend these provisions. However, we are dealing with a complicated area of law, even by the demanding standards of occupational pensions legislation. The changes reflect our wish to get the new provisions right and our willingness to listen to the experts to enable us to do that. Should hon. Members require me to do so, I shall spell out the detailed points of the amendments.
§ Question put and agreed to.
§ Lords amendments Nos. 13 to 30 agreed to.
§ Lords amendment: No. 31, in page 35, line 31, leave out "and".
§ Mr. WhitneyI beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
This is a minor drafting amendment, but it seems worth getting paragraph 2(2) right while schedule 1 is being amended. The removal of the word "and" is a drafting point.
§ Question put and agreed to.
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Lords amendment: No. 32, in page 37, line 8, leave out "his widow" and insert
to any other person in respect of him
§ Mr. WhitneyI beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
This is a technical amendment which will put right a defect in the revaluation requirements for flat-rate benefits. The requirements apply, for other benefits, to all dependants' benefits provided by the scheme, but flat-rate benefits cover only widows benefits. This is an error which the amendment corrects.
§ Question put and agreed to.
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Lords amendment: No. 33, in page 37, line 20, leave out
payments made from time to time
and insert
a payment or payments made
§ Mr. WhitneyI beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
752 This is another technical amendment. The definition of a money purchase benefit is defective because it does not cover the situation where the benefit results from a single contribution or payment. This amendment will remedy the defect.
§ Question put and agreed to.
§ Lords amendment: No. 34, in page 39, line 35, after "to" insert "or in respect of
§ Mr. WhitneyI beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerIt will be convenient for the House to consider at the same time Lords amendment No. 35, in page 39, line 37, after "to" insert "or in respect of"
§ Mr. WhitneyIt has been suggested that it is not entirely clear whether accrued rights include all benefits for or in respect of the member. These amendments make it clear that they do.
§ Question put and agreed to.
§ Lords amendment No. 35 agreed to.
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Lords amendment: No. 36, in page 40, line 46, leave out "or friendly societies" and insert
such as are mentioned in section 52C(3)(a) above
§ Mr. WhitneyI beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
This is another technical amendment. When someone uses a transfer value to buy an annuity, the annuity will have to satisfy prescribed conditions. It was always our intention that these conditions should include restrictions on with whom the policy or contract can be taken out. It was also our intention that the prescribed conditions should not conflict with new section 52C, which deals with discharging liability on buy-out. We now have doubts whether the power in paragraph 13(2)(b) is sufficient to enable us to do this. We have therefore concluded that it would be best to put this provision on all fours with new section 52C.
§ Question put and agreed to.