SECTION 3 (Hansard, 22 July 1985)

Mr. Shaw
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
This is a minor drafting amendment. The effect of removal of a justices' licence to different premises is that the premises to which the licence originally related cease to be licensed premises. The words "or removal" thus add nothing to the final words of the subsection.

§ Mr. Giles Shaw
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this it will be convenient to consider Lords amendment No. 9, in page 5, line 22, leave out subsection (4) and insert— (4) Where an order under that section is in force in respect of any premises and application is made not less than twenty-eight days before the order is due to expire for renewal of the order or for a further order in respect of the premises, the first-mentioned order shall not cease to have effect by virtue of subsection (1)(b) above until the application is disposed of by the magistrates' court.

§ Mr. Shaw
Both of these amendments are designed to protect football clubs which undergo a change of licensee. As the Bill is drafted, such a change could in certain circumstances terminate the exemption order with no possibility of a new order for at least 28 days. That would mean that no alcohol could be sold at the premises during that period. We see no justification for penalising a club under those circumstances, which are probably outside its control. The amendments permit the current exemption order to continue in force until the courts have dealt with a fresh application for a new order by the new licensee, provided that the application is made in good time before the expiry of the current order. The amendments are somewhat technical, but I hope that the House will agree to accept them.

§ Mr. Tom Pendry (Stalybridge and Hyde)
I understand that the amendment originated with a firm of Liverpool solicitors which managed to see the Bill and comment on it in time for its suggestions to be included. That is a victory for people who will be closely affected by the Bill. The Bill was rushed. Not many of us were able to see such comments in time for them to be debated, and it took the other place to rectify that shortcoming. It is 764 therefore right that the other place had longer than us to discuss the Bill. The Bill is bad in many respects and I hope that the promised monitoring exercise is effective.

§ Mr. Shaw
I accept that, through the co-operation of the official Opposition and the other parties, the Bill was granted rapid progress. However, I think that the hon. Gentleman will agree that the circumstances in which the legislation was brought before the House are, I hope, exceptional, in both their character and importance.
The hon. Gentleman referred to monitoring. The assurance given by my noble Friend Lord Glenarthur in the upper House is clear. It is our intention to review the position during the season in relation to the legislation on public order that will be brought before the House in due course. My noble Friend gave the assurance that the long title of that Bill would allow, if it were necessary, and if my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary deemed it right, for amendments to be brought forward. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will recognise that further amendment would have to be looked at carefully in relation to the state of the game at the time.

§ Mr. Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton)
As we are coming to the end of the not exactly protracted proceedings on the Bill, and as the Act will be in operation at the beginning of the football season in fewer than four weeks from now, may I ask the Minister whether the Government have any plans to keep the House informed of the progress of the monitoring exercise, so that we may share in the information that the Government will be gaining on the use of the Act? For example, it would be interesting if the House could be informed periodically of the number of exemption orders being granted. There may be no reason why we cannot be given a list of the clubs that have been granted those orders. It would also be interesting and useful, if we have to reconsider these matters in future more permanent legislation, for the police, the football authorities and others to give us some idea, first of the success of the Act in dealing with the serious problem that every one of us in the House wants to be dealt with, and secondly of the financial effect on the clubs because, inevitably, that has given rise to a great deal of concern. It would be useful if, over the next season, we could be kept informed of how things were going on that front, too.

§ Mr. Shaw
I fully understand why it would be useful to keep the House informed. I am sure that that will be done through the questioning procedure.
The consequences on the football clubs were the crucial factor giving rise to the concern expressed about the exemption procedure, particularly for sponsored boxes. I understand that it is the intention of the football league itself to keep my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary advised on how it views the position. Its information could form the basis of any evidence that is put before us. However, the right hon. Gentleman is right. We have agreed to review the matter as the season progresses.
The right hon. Gentleman said that there might be a review of the legislation to put it on a more permanent footing. I remind him that it is primary legislation, which is therefore already on a permanent footing.

§ Mr. Kaufman
Of course, we have the questioning procedure, but we do not always know when information 765 is available to the Government. It would be useful if the Government, of their own accord, could make information available to the House from time to time. It may well be that the Minister is unaware of the device of the planted question. I should like to remind him of it. It is something to which he might have recourse to keep the House informed.

§ Mr. Shaw
Of course, as I am so close to the Floor, I rarely stoop so low, but I understand that there is such a device. I shall bear in mind what the right hon. Gentleman has said.