HC Deb 22 July 1985 vol 83 c760

Lords amendment: No. 1, in page 2, line 3, leave out from "offence" to end of line 7 and insert—

  1. (a) if the vehicle is a public service vehicle and he is the operator of the vehicle or the servant or agent of the operator, or
  2. (b) if the vehicle is a hired vehicle and he is the person to whom it is hired or the servant or agent of that person".

5.17 pm
The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Giles Shaw)

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Ernest Armstrong)

With this, it will be convenient to take Lords amendment No. 2, in page 2, line 14, leave out in relation to such a vehicle

No. 3, in page 2, line 16, leave out from "1981" to end of line 18.

Mr. Shaw

These amendments relate to the liability of operators and hirers of vehicles to which clause 1 applies and their servants or agents, who knowingly cause or permit the carriage of alcohol. As presently drafted, the clause catches the operator and the hirer and the servant or agent of either whether the vehicle in question is a public service vehicle or a train. During earlier proceedings on the Bill, hon. Members, particularly the hon. Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar), expressed concern that in England and Wales the position of British Rail and its employees would be different from that in Scotland. In England and Wales they would be liable; in Scotland they would not. The Government agree that the position should be the same so far as possible on both sides of the border, and that is the purpose of these amendments.

The net effect of the amendments is that for public service vehicles—coaches and so on—the hirer and the operator and the servant or agent of either are all caught whereas for trains only the hirer and his servant or agent are caught. So British Rail and its drivers, guards and ticket collectors are not liable.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords amendments Nos. 2 and 3 agreed to.

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