Top Salaries Review Body (Hansard, 19 July 1985)

§ Mr. Roy Hattersley (Birmingham, Sparkbrook)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I wish to ask for your advice, and for your protection of the House. You will recall that yesterday afternoon, after Prime Minister's Question Time, the Government announced their attitude towards top pay in the Civil Service, the armed forces and the judiciary, and did so suddenly and three days earlier than the press had been allowed to believe.
The Opposition have pressed the Government to make a statement on this matter, not least because it has implications that go far wider than the 2,000 men and women involved. Questions on this subject need to be answered, in the national interest. I give one example. We need to know what the Government believe will be the effect of a 30 per cent. increase in the salary of the permanent secretary at the Department of Education and Science on the prospect of the teachers accepting a pay increase of 6 per cent. or a little more. Such questions are vital for the nation.
The Government have refused point blank to make such a statement and I ask you, Mr. Speaker, what recourse Opposition parties, and Parliament in general, have, and how we can ask the Government to do what is clearly necessary.

§ Mr. Eric Forth (Mid-Worcestershire)
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. It was an answer to my question that gave the Government's reaction. I need time to reflect on the wealth of detail in the answer given by the Prime Minister yesterday. I hope that the Government will not rush into an early statement and force me and the rest of the House to give an ill-considered reaction to this most important point. I urge the Government to give me time to think about it.

§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Do you recall that a fortnight and a day ago, at business questions, I asked about a statement on top salaries? We have just had a statement about teachers' pay from the Secretary of State for Education and Science. I suggested that it would be a good idea if, on the next occasion that we had a statement about the paltry offer being made to the teachers, it could be followed by a statement on the Government's attitude towards top pay, including the £24,000 that is being given to Sir Robert Armstrong, the Secretary to the Cabinet. He is one of the advisers to the Government on how to tell people to keep their wages down.
When I put that question to the Leader of the House, I got the clear impression that the Government would take the point on board. Yesterday the Government deliberately 630 got a question planted to prevent the matter from being debated openly in the House. While Tory Members of Parliament were upstairs in Committee Room 14 trying to cheer the Prime Minister on all her so-called wonderful efforts in the past 12 months, she should have been down here in the House, at the Dispatch Box, explaining why pensioners are stuck with a 7 per cent. increase, nurses will get only 7 per cent. with some clawback, teachers are offered only 5.8 per cent., and local authority manual workers are given only 4 per cent., whereas the top brass can get up to nearly 50 per cent. increases in pay.
It is a scandal, and the Government do not have the guts to come to the House and face the music, and explain how they have managed to pay such extortionate increases to people who are doing very nicely, thank you.

§ Mr. Patrick Thompson (Norwich, North)
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I hope that it is recognised that there is concern about this matter on both sides of the House and that therefore an early statement and debate would be welcomed by many people. both inside and outside the House.

§ Mr. Dave Nellist (Coventry, South-East)
Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. On Wednesday, the Secretary of State for Employment made a statement about the abolition of wages councils which have protected the wage rates of workers under the age of 21. That statement was the same length as the written answer by the Prime Minister on top salaries. The statement on Wednesday allowed Tory Members to argue that the wages of young people such as hairdressers earning £34 or £35 a week should be reduced to create employment. Yesterday Opposition Members were denied the opportunity to argue that 2,000 people—judges, top civil servants and leaders of the Armed Forces—already earning £40,000 or £50,000 a year should not be given another £10,000 or £20,000. The Government are two-faced and operating double standards.

§ Mr. Roger Gale (Thanet, North)
Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Members on both sides of the House would like to make observations about yesterday's announcement. In spite of the purple prose of the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner), the paucity of attendance on the Opposition Benches suggests that next week might be a better time to discuss the matter. I urge you, Mr. Speaker, to use your good offices to ensure that the House has such an opportunity next week.

§ Mr. Clement Freud (Cambridgeshire, North-East)
Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. Before the House becomes any hotter on this matter, will the Leader of the House say whether a statement is to be made today?

§ Mr. Speaker
The House knows that notification of a statement does not have to be given to me before 10 o'clock, but I can tell the House that I have had notification that a business statement is to be made at 11 o'clock. Of course, I have no idea what it contains.