Coal Mining Dispute (Hansard, 17 July 1985)

§ 40. Mr. Dalyell
asked the Solicitor-General for Scotland what are the most recent conveniently available statistics he has for prosecutions during the miners' dispute.

§ The Solicitor-General for Scotland
In all. 1,012 people have been prosecuted for incidents arising out of the miners' dispute; 721 of those have been convicted; while 227 have been acquitted. There are still 64 cases pending.

§ Mr. Dalyell
What is the Minister's attitude towards the forthcoming Ealing meeting between Mr. McGahey and Mr. Loudon on this subject.

§ The Solicitor-General for Scotland
As Solicitor-General for Scotland, I have no opinion on that matter. As I have said repeatedly in answers to questions on the subject, it is a matter of prosecutions before the criminal courts. Issues of industrial dispute and questions of unfair dismissal are to be resolved either as a matter of negotiation or before the tribunals that are established to determine whether there has been an unfair dismissal. It is not for me to comment on that.

§ Mr. Wallace
Will the hon. and learned Gentleman accept that, among those acquitted, there have been reported instances of people who have also been dismissed? Will he, with his legal background and training, explain to the Secretary of State for Energy the distinction between unfair dismissal cases, which can lead to compensation but not necessarily to reinstatement, and the conciliation procedure, which can lead to people who have been unfairly dismissed being reinstated in their jobs?

§ The Solicitor-General for Scotland
I appreciate the point that the hon. Gentleman makes, but he is wrong to assume that either the Secretary of State for Scotland or the Secretary of State for Energy fails to understand the issues. My right hon. Friends and I have said repeatedly that it is a matter for the National Coal Board to determine. If it has it wrong, there are tribunals that deal with matters of unfair dismissal, where remedies of one sort or another are available to those who complain.

§ Mr. Henderson
In view of persistent rumours that there has been harassment of miners who worked during 313 the strike and their families, will my hon. and learned Friend say whether there have been any prosecutions of that nature since the dispute?

§ The Solicitor-General for Scotland
It is obviously difficult for me to identify that or to give any statistical information. However, on an anecdotal basis, I am aware that cases have come before the courts involving assaults and breach of the peace in which those who were involved have been working miners or those who have been on strike. How directly those come out of the miners' strike is an issue on which I cannot give a concluded view.

§ Mr. Eadie
Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the NCB has written to chief constables asking that the NCB be allowed to precognosce police officers before they attend industrial tribunals? Apart from any question concerning the legality of that, does the hon. and learned Gentleman not think that it would be a waste of time as well as interference?

§ The Solicitor-General for Scotland
No. Generally, in Scotland, if people are to be required as witnesses before courts or tribunals, it would seem good sense that before they come into the court or the tribunal to give evidence, some sign as to what their evidence is likely to be should be given. If people are seeking to precognosce policemen, that would seem a sensible step.

§ Mr. Dick Douglas
The hon. and learned Gentleman will be aware that I have written to him about a specific case that is illustrative of the issue generally, the case of Mr. Allan Collins. Sheriff Reid in Dunfermline has shown his concern that the miner involved in that case should not suffer the double jeopardy of being fined by the court and being dismissed by the Coal Board. Whatever else may be at issue, the Solicitor-General has some responsibility for saying clearly to the House and the country that, in the interests of justice, miners who have expunged their responsibilities to society should not suffer the severe penalty of being dismissed by the Coal Board.

§ The Solicitor-General for Scotland
The hon. Gentleman used the term double jeopardy, which I might 314 use in a rather more technical sense. I am aware of the case, and the hon. Gentleman is aware that, following the concern that the sheriff has shown, steps were taken to have that case adjourned and brought before him at a later stage. I understand that that later stage has not yet occurred. Once again, I have to say that in those circumstances it would be wholly inappropriate for me in any way to express a view on it.

§ Mr. Willie W. Hamilton
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Does it arise out of questions?

§ Mr. Hamilton
It arises directly out of questions, Mr. Speaker, and you will probably know the point that I am about to raise.
You might recall, as I do, when Prime Minister's questions came after question No. 45, and that question was often reached. Today, and this is not for the first time in Scottish questions, we reached only No. 12 by 3.20 and we had no less than 10 minutes on question No. 2 on the miners' strike, which is as important to me as to other hon. Members. However, there are more nurses in Scotland than miners, and some of us attach as much importance to nurses' conditions as we do to those of miners.
My point of order is simple. My question is No. 13, which was not reached. It relates specifically to nurses' wages and how that the interests of patients will be jeopardised because of the way in which the wage increase is to be financed. This is extremely important. I know that you, Mr. Speaker, consider questions carefully before you come to the Chamber, and I hope that next time you will assess the relative importance of questions. I hope that when next I table a question on this important matter you will take this occasion into account and take steps to see that my question is reached.

§ Mr. Speaker
In fairness to the hon. Gentleman, I agree that we did not make good progress. I interrupted on two occasions, and many times from a sedentary position, as both questions and answers were very long.