§ Mr. Donald Coleman (Neath)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In the course of the debate on the Welsh rate support grant last evening, my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Mr. Powell) raised with Mr. Deputy Speaker the fact that the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Mr. Best) was seen to be obtaining information from the civil servants box at the back of the Chamber, although that hon. Gentleman is neither a Minister nor a Parliamentary Private Secretary.
At that point, Mr. Deputy Speaker ruled, quite properly, that it was not a matter for his concern because the people in the officials' box were outside the Chamber. We accepted his ruling, although it was clear that an attempt had been made by the hon. Member concerned to seek privileges over other hon. Members. May we have your guidance, Mr. Speaker, as to the propriety of the hon. Gentleman's action?
§ Mr. SpeakerI am aware of the incident that was raised with Mr. Deputy Speaker last night. and I am grateful to the hon. Member for Neath (Mr. Coleman) for giving me notice of his intention to raise it today, because that has enabled me to look into it with great care. Departmental officials are admitted to the box behind the Chair so as to be available to Ministers.
§ Mr. Ray Powell (Ogmore)It was I who raised the point of order last night, when Mr. Deputy Speaker informed me that there had been no infringement of the rules of the House. It was obvious that civil servants in the box were giving documents to the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Mr. Best).
I understand that that hon. Member was informed that this point of order would be raised, and I appreciate that his absence may mean that he is engaged elsewhere. The fact that he has been informed means that my hon. Friends and I are not raising the matter without his knowledge.
When I approached the officials' box—as I told Mr. Deputy Speaker that I would—to ask for some information that I wanted regarding the situation in the Ogmore constituency and in Mid-Glamorgan, I was handed a copy of the supplementary rate support grant report which I already had, and the officials would not furnish me with any other information. They told me that they were available to give information to hon. Members other than Government Back-Benchers. If that information is correct and we can all approach the box for information, I need not have raised the point of order in the way I did last night, and I would not be raising the issue again today. However, I take it that the ruling is that the officials in the box are available only to advise Ministers.
§ Mr. SpeakerI have nothing to add to what I have said. It is a question for Ministers and not for the Chair.