HC Deb 27 February 1985 vol 74 cc424-30
Mr. Brittan

I beg to move amendment No. 72, in page 29, line 29, after '(2)', insert—

  1. '(a) at the end of paragraph (a) there shall be inserted the words "and, in particular, they shall, so far as is reasonable and practicable, designate as polling places only places which are accessible to electors who are disabled" and
  2. (b) in paragraph'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

With this it will be convenient to take Government amendment No. 73.

Mr. Brittan

These amendments require those who are responsible for the designation of polling places at parliamentary elections in England and Wales to designate, so far as is reasonable and practicable, places which are accessible to disabled people. They were tabled in response to an undertaking given in Committee to my hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr. Hannam). He moved two amendments. The first sought to enable disabled electors to vote at any polling station in their constituency or electoral area, and the second sought to apply to the designation of polling places the access criteria which apply under the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970.

The sense of the debate was that the former amendment should not be pursued, and these amendments are essentially redrafts of the latter amendment. Amendments are made to subsections (2) and (3) of section 18 of the Representation of the People Act 1983. Those are the provisions that govern the designation of parliamentary polling places in England, Wales and Scotland. The district or London borough council, and in Scotland the returning officer, is responsible for the designation of polling places and has to exercise the powers with a view to giving all the electors such reasonable facilities for voting as are practicable in the circumstances. The amendments add a further requirement to the effect that in particular the council or returning officer shall, so far as is reasonable and practicable, designate only places which are accessible to disabled electors. The words "reasonable and practicable" are used in the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970. Therefore, it is appropriate to use them in this legislation.

The amendments do not affect the designation of parliamentary polling stations in Northern Ireland, because those are governed by separate legislation.

I commend the amendents to the House.

9.30 pm
Mr. Robert Kilroy-Silk (Knowsley, North)

We welcome the Government's commitment to encourage returning officers so far as is practicable and reasonable to designate as polling stations buildings accessible to electors who are disabled. As the Home Secretary has said, this follows the commitment given in Committee to the hon. Member for Exeter (Mr. Hannam) and my hon. Friend the Member for Eccles (Mr. Carter-Jones). They pointed out that thousands of disabled people experience great difficulty in getting to polling stations, not to mention the deterrent effect of high steps and narrow entrances and corridors at the polling station itself. Those difficulties are both unnecessary and undesirable.

It is extremely important to ensure that every citizen entitled to do so is is able to exercise his civic and political rights. We accept that postal and proxy votes are available for such individuals and that availability will be extended by the Bill. Nevertheless, as every hon. Member knows from his own experience at election time, many disabled people, especially those disabled by age infirmity, want to go to the polling station and vote in person just like other people and to feel part of the democratic process. They should be given the facility and the ability to be part of that process.

In our view, therefore, the Government should insist that all polling stations should be accessible at all times to all people, including those who are disabled. It is not unremarkable that the Government can apparently find sufficient money to extend to franchise to British citizens resident abroad but not the extra resources required to ensure that all polling stations are accessible to all disabled people so that British citizens living in this country who happen to be disabled can exercise their vote. I do not wish to sound churlish, and we in no way dissent from what the Government are doing, save to hope that they will give greater encouragement to returning officers to ensure that every polling station is accessible to the disabled so that those people can cast their votes in the same way as other citizens eligible to do so.

Mr. Simon Hughes

On behalf of the alliance, I welcome the Government's acceptance of the need for as much effort as possible to be made by returning officers to ensure that the disabled, if they so wish, can vote in person rather than having to use postal or proxy votes.

As the Home Secretary knows, the disabled are troubled by physical obstacles such as steps and slopes and —I hope that putting this on record will ensure that it goes through into the planning of polling station distribution—long distances between the entrance to the building and the polling place. Handicapped or disabled people having arrived by car or public transport sometimes have to make a phenomenal effort to get to the part of the building where they have to vote. This applies particularly in schools. Even if it means less use of schools, if they are organised in such a way as to make a polling station close to the entrance difficult to arrange, I hope that a variety of premises will be considered so that at all times and in all circumstances the disabled are able to exercise their vote in person. As the hon. Member for Knowsley, North (Mr. Kilroy-Silk) has said, they should be able to exercise their franchise as they would wish, to be treated as normal members of society and not discriminated against in any way.

The amendments are good amendments and I hope that they will be widely interpreted in the spirit in which they have been introduced and accepted by the House.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendment made: No. 73, in page 29, line 30, at end insert— '(1A) In subsection (3) of that section at the end of paragraph (a) there shall be inserted the words "and, in particular, he shall, so far as is reasonable and practicable, designate as polling places only places which are accessible to electors who are disabled".'.—[Mr. Britian.]

Mr. Bermingham

I beg to move amendment No. 74, in page 35, line 3, after subsection (7) insert— '(7A) A meeting shall not be deemed to be a public meeting for the purpose of this section unless not less than two thirds of the seats at such a meeting are open to any members of the public who attend while they are unoccupied, provided that a member of the public may be excluded from such a meeting if the person by or on whose behalf the meeting is convened believes on reasonable grounds that such a member is attending for the purposes of causing disorder.'. I am moving the amendment on behalf of my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Leicester, West (Mr. Janner), who is unable to be in his place this evening. The amendment also stands in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick) who also cannot be here; he has a bad cold.

The wording of the amendment explains the worry that some of us have. The issue was canvassed in Committee, when the Minister's reply suggested that if he could find a way of solving the mischief with which the amendment deals he would accept it.

This is the last opportunity that we shall have for some time to debate the subject. The mischief with which the amendment deals worries hon. Members on both sides of the House. That mischief concerns a public meeting which is not really a public meeting, held during an election campaign. Unfortunately, the police cannot attend such a meeting under the present law.

I need not say much to identify the political party—the National Front — which is good at holding closed meetings which are said to be public meetings but which, in fact, are not public. They are held behind closed doors and the public are not admitted. The object of such meetings is to disrupt and cause trouble, often of a racist or religious kind, because the object of that nasty little organisation is the absolute negation of democracy.

If, during an election campaign, a meeting was designated to be a public meeting, it would, under the amendment, have to be such, with two thirds of the seats being available to members of the public. We would thereby stop the mischief. If, at a public meeting of that sort, there were racist, disruptive, anti-Semitic or anti-religious comment, the police would have right of entry and prosecutions could be brought against the perpetrators of the nastiness.

The Minister may say in reply that he hopes that a solution to the matter will be found. In the meantime, I rest content on the wording of the amendment. If the Minister replies that the search for a solution to this nastiness will continue beyond the passage of the Bill, I will beg leave to withdraw the amendment, having placed on record the fact that we continue to be worried about the matter.

We believe in open democracy, with the public having the right to attend public meetings the purpose of which is not to purvey dirt, filth and smear but to purvey to the public at large the intentions of the political party.

Mr. Mellor

I gave a full account of our views in Committee, when I made it clear that I was not in favour of the election entitlements to public rooms being abused. I do not believe, any more than the hon. Member for St. Helens, South (Mr. Bermingham) does, that the amendment would provide the solution. However, we shall continue to consider the matter, not least in the review of public order law that is going on, and any further thoughts on the subject will be gratefully received.

Mr. Bermingham

In the light of that assurance, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. Mellor

I beg to move amendment No. 75, in page 35, line 4 leave out from beginning to 'Subsections' in line 16 and insert— '38. For section 96 (schools and rooms for local election meetings) there shall be substituted—

"Schools and Rooms for Local Election Meetings

  1. 96. — (1) Subject to the provisions of this section, a candidate at a local government election is entitled for the purpose of holding public meetings in furtherance of his candidature to the use free of charge at reasonable times between the last day on which notice of the election may be published in accordance with rules made under section 36 or, in Scotland, section 42 above and the day preceding the day of election of—
    1. (a) a suitable room in the premises of a school to which this section applies;
    2. (b) a meeting room to which this section applies.
  2. (2) This section applies—
    1. (a) in England and Wales, to a county or voluntary school situated in the electoral area for which the candidate is standing (or, if there is no such school in the area, in any such school in an adjacent electoral area) or in a parish or community, as the case may be, in part comprised in that electoral area; and
    2. (b) in Scotland, to any school (not being an independent school within the meaning of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980) situated in the electoral area for which the candidate is standing (or, if there is no such school in the area, in any such school in an adjacent electoral area).
  3. (3) This section applies—
    1. (a) in England and Wales, to any meeting room situated in the electoral area for which the candidate is standing or in a parish or community, as the case may be, in part comprised in that electoral area, the expense of maintaining which is payable wholly or mainly out of public funds or out of any rate, or by a body whose expenses are so payable;
    2. (b) in Scotland, to any meeting room the expense of maintaining which is payable by the council of a region, islands area or district.
  4. (4)'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Paul Dean)

I suggest that it would be for the convenience of the House to discuss at the same time Government amendment No. 89.

Mr. Mellor

These amendments are designed to cure a small anomaly. Candidates have the right to use local authority meeting rooms as well as school rooms at parliamentary elections throughout Great Britain and at local government elections in Scotland, but not at local government elections in England and Wales. It is proposed to give candidates at local government elections in England and Wales the right to use meeting rooms as well as school rooms.

Mr. Beith

I welcome the amendment, which improves the state of the law. It is important that we maintain provisions for the availability of schools and public meeting rooms for candidates. When there are several candidates seeking rooms in the same locality, it can be difficult for them to find rooms in which to hold election meetings. There has been a decline in some areas in the number of public halls and public rooms that are available. A number of traditional venues are no longer available for that purpose.

Sometimes education authorities, local authorities and even, dare one say, caretakers are unhappy about the extra burdens imposed on them during elections. It is an essential part of our democratic process that facilities should be available for candidates to conduct such meetings. The inconvenience is a very small price to pay for that provision.

With regard to the use of schools, the meetings that candidates hold are far less of an inconvenience than is polling day itself, because those meetings do not interfere with the normal conduct of the school. Indeed, they are often advantageous in that they bring into the school people who see the work that children have put on the walls. Come polling day, if returning officers are not careful to look for alternative accommodation, the too frequent and too ready use of schools can pose considerable inconvenience for the conduct of education, particularly in special schools. I welcome an earlier amendment that will mean that returning officers will have to be more careful in their choice of accommodation. The availability of public rooms for meetings is an essential part of our democratic process.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Mellor

I beg to move amendment No. 76, in page 36, line 16, leave out from 'section' to end of line 17 and insert '136 (security for costs)'.

Mr. Speaker

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government Nos. 77 to 81 and Government amendment No. 91.

Mr. Mellor

The aim of these amendments is to allow the rules of court to prescribe extended periods in relation to the security for the costs of trial of an election petition. I hope that the amendments, which are in keeping with the thoughts of the parties on this matter, will be acceptable to the House.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments made: No. 77, in page 36, line 18, leave out 'paragraph' and insert 'subsection (2)'.

No. 78, in page 36, line 22, leave out 'paragraph' and insert 'subsection (2)'.

No. 79, in page 36, line 23, leave out 'and'.

No. 80 in page 36, line 24, leave out 'paragraph' and insert 'subsection (2)'.

No. 81, in page 36, line 30, at end insert 'and (d) the following provisions shall cease to have effect—

  1. (i) in subsection (3) the words "not exceeding five days after the presentation of the petition";
    2. 429
  2. (ii) in subsection (4) the words "not exceeding five days after service of the notice";
  3. (iii) subsection 5(b);
  4. (iv) in subsection (7) the words "not exceeding five days".'.—[Mr. Britten.]

Mr. Mellor

I beg to move amendment No. 82, in page 41, line 27, leave out from 'stations)' to end of line 28 and insert 'for the words from "a notice" onwards there shall be substituted the words "the notice 'Vote for one candidate only. Put no other mark on the ballot paper, or your vote may not be counted.'".'.

Mr. Speaker

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments Nos. 84, 86, 88 and 92.

Mr. Mellor

At an earlier stage I was foolish enough to involve myself in a battle of semantics with the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith), who was then able to pray in aid the right hon. Member for South Down (Mr. Powell), and I was severely worsted. To show that I have profited from the experience, I bring forward amendments to do what that particularly effective combination of hon. Gentlemen wished me to do.

Mr. Beith

I very much welcome the Minister's conversion. At an earlier stage and an incautious moment he thought us pedantic when we sought to ensure that the words on the ballot paper conveyed to the electorate what they were intended to convey. I hope that when he goes home and settles down to a hot toddy and a pile of back numbers of the Conservative Monthly News, getting a much earlier night than he might otherwise have got, he will sit back and realise that he has improved the use of the English language on ballot papers from that which was originally proposed. That will not be a bad thing.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Mellor

I beg to move amendment No. 83, in page 42, line 22, leave out first 'on' and insert 'not later than'.

This is another attempt to ingratiate myself with the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed who was rightly concerned at the absence of rules for the return of deposits. We provided in the Bill that it should be done on what would effectively have been the Monday following a Thursday poll. We became aware that that might preclude a returning officer who was particularly efficient from returning the money on the Friday. The substitution of "not later than" for "on" will enable a particularly diligent returning officer to return the money before the weekend. Certainly he would have to return it the day after the weekend. I hope that the amendment commends itself to the House.

9.45 pm
Mr. Beith

Once again, I find myself thanking the Minister. When the Bill was introduced, the rules on the returning of deposits were unclear and the return could be delayed for a considerable time. We are now talking about a larger deposit, although nothing like as large as the Government intended originally to introduce. However, the prompt return of the deposit is obviously desirable and important and I very much welcome the amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments made: No. 84, in page 42, line 34, leave out from 'words' to 'in' and insert

"VOTE FOR ONE CANDIDATE ONLY" '

No. 86, line 39, leave out from 'direction' to 'and' in line 40 and insert

"VOTE FOR ONE CANDIDATE ONLY".'.

No. 88, in page 43, line 22, leave out 'only one candidate, and put' and insert 'one candidate only. Put' —[Mr. Mellor.]

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