HC Deb 11 February 1985 vol 73 cc3-4
2. Mr. Abse

asked the Secretary of State for Wales why the details of the settlement between the Welsh Health Services Technical Organisation, S. W. Milburn and Partners and W. S. Atkins and Partners pertaining to structural and material defects at the Heath hospital, Cardiff, were not published at the time of the settlement; and if he will make a statement.

The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Nicholas Edwards)

Yes, Sir. I intend to make a statement to the House tomorrow.

Mr. Abse

So grave, in my judgment, is the breach that the Secretary of State for Wales has committed against the House in this matter, that he could do no other than reply that he will make a statement. But in the meantime, will the Secretary of State, having presided over the most massive administrative blunder in the history of the Welsh Office, and being known throughout Wales as Mr. "Nobody-tells-me-anything" Edwards, will he explain why, in a parliamentary reply in May 1983, he denied me access to reports on the hospital on the ground that they were relevant to litigation, and now admits that he so failed to monitor the chaos of that litigation that he knew of the final settlement only by reading the South Wales Echo?

Why does the Secretary of State shamelessly seek to blame his own civil servants, including, of course, Mr. Lloyd, his assistant principal secretary, who, on his behalf, signed the settlement? Even more absurdly, why is the Secretary of State trying to blame a Labour Administration when it was in his period of office that the decision had to be made whether to issue writs, and when all he did was to issue a writ that was five days late?

Finally—[HON. MEMBERS: "No. Too long."]—since the Secretary of State clearly has no control over his own Department, why does he not have the dignity to admit ministerial responsibility and resign?

Mr. Speaker

Order. I appeal for briefer questions, otherwise we shall not get anywhere today.

Mr. Edwards

So many, so serious, so wild and so inaccurate are the allegations that I think it best that I deal with them all in the statement tomorrow. The hon. Gentleman is wrong in most of his allegations, including the allegation that the matter was out of time.

Mr. Gwilym Jones

My right hon. Friend is to be congratulated on the way that he has acted so typically quickly and completely correctly in the matter, in obtaining a full disclosure of all the information.

Will my right hon. Friend consider telling the House, in his statement tomorrow, whether it would be appropriate for the matter to be considered by the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, as the important point now is to ensure that it does not happen again?

Mr. Edwards

I would welcome the fullest possible examination, becsause it is a story that covers many years, many organisations, many people, and different Administrations. I believe that there are lessons to be learnt from it. I will accept my degree of responsibility in the matter; I hope that others involved will accept theirs.

Mr. Williams

When he makes his statement, will the Secretary of State explain how he reconciles the concept of ministerial responsibility with his statement that he knew about the settlement only when he read about it last week in the newspapers? Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the House will not accept as honourable a Cabinet Minister who tells the House, "It is not my fault. My officials got it wrong."?

Mr. Edwards

I shall deal with those points in my statement tomorrow. It might also be a good idea if at some point it could be decided whether it is right that your rulings, Mr. Speaker, should appear for the first time not in the House but in the South Wales Echo.

Mr. Barry Jones

In supporting what my right hon. and hon. Friends have said, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to say whether the legal proceedings and writs involve any other major hospitals in the Principality? Has the right hon. Gentleman in any way concealed the true cost of repairs at the Heath hospital? In his estimate of an outline cost of £4 million, in reply to a parliamentary question from me, did he leave out the cost of repairing the roofs?

Mr. Edwards

That £4 million figure is absolutely correct and will be dealt with in my statement tomorrow. A writ was issued on 1 November in respect of Ysbyty Gwynedd and a statement of claim is being prepared.