South Africa (Hansard, 18 December 1985)

§ 2. Mr. Adley
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will seek to pay an official visit to South Africa.

§ The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Sir Geoffrey Howe)
I have at present no plans to visit South Africa.

§ Mr. Adley
That is a pity, Mr. Speaker. Will my right hon. and learned Friend accept from me that words such as "Parliament", "Government" and "democracy" are an abuse of the English language when applied to a system which excludes the majority of the people from participation therein? May I invite my right hon. and learned Friend to find a form of words to describe accurately a regime which deprives the majority of civil rights, herds them into townships and controls them with armoured vehicles?

§ Sir Geoffrey Howe
I have no doubt that my hon. Friend expresses feelings that are shared by many —indeed, by most—British people about the system of apartheid. The task is not to condemn it—which I do unreservedly—but to try to promote constructive steps to bring about its early disappearance.

§ Mr. Nellist
If the Secretary of State were to make a trip to South Africa, would he be congratulating those responsible for the formation three weeks ago of COSATU—the Congress of South African Trade Unions—and on bringing together 34 non-racial independent trade unions representing about 500,000 black workers and workers of other races in South Africa, or, instead of identifying himself with those who create wealth in South Africa, would he be congratulating firms, such as Consolidated Gold Fields which made a profit of £105 million last year by paying the black miners of South Africa £21 to £25 a week? Which of those two institutions would he be most likely to congratulate?

§ Sir Geoffrey Howe
I should avoid the simplicity of choice which always commends itself to the hon. Gentleman. I would commend those firms which seek to maintain investment and economic activity in South Africa to pay special attention to the European Community's extended code, which encourages them to do more than they have done so far in promoting the rights of black trade unions in South Africa.

§ Mr. John Carlisle
Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the course of action proposed by Labour Members, and, unfortunately, by some of my misinformed hon. Friends, to engage in dialogue with the African National Council is especially dangerous and foolhardy in the light of recent terrorist killings which have taken place within South Africa's borders? Will he condemn those killings by that terrorist organisation and commend the South Arican Government for their restrained response to these incidents?

§ Sir Geoffrey Howe
We have already made it clear that we deplore the loss of life arising from the recent land mine incidents. We have always condemned violence as a means of achieving political objectives. A suspension of violence would do much to facilitate the dialogue that we all agree is needed urgently in South Africa. We have made clear to the South African Government our condemnation of all forms of cross-border violence.

§ Mr. Carter-Jones
Does the Secretary of State agree with the view expressed by the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Adley)? As a young aircrew cadet in 1941, many years ago, I served in South Africa. I assure the right hon. and learned Gentleman that, despite what some of his hon. Friends say, the situation in South Africa now, with pass laws, is more vicious than it was 45 years ago.

§ Sir Geoffrey Howe
I have no doubt that the position compared with 45 years ago has deteriorated in a number of respects, because there has been significant political change in South Africa. While making that point, it is also fair to acknowledge that in recent times the South African Government have embarked upon a policy of limited but specific reform, moving in some respects in the right direction. We need to encourage them to proceed at a much faster pace. Our task must be to promote the dialogue that is essential to a peaceful dismantlement of the system of apartheid.

§ Mr. Bowen Wells
Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that once more taking up our position as one of the five countries of the Contact Group that was charged with trying to negotiate a settlement in Namibia would rejuvenate our interest, lead us not to rely solely on American initiatives and put added pressure on the South African Government to enter into a dialogue with the majority populations in both those countries?

§ Sir Geoffrey Howe
I agree with my hon. Friend that, when looking at the larger South African problem, we should not forget the importance of implementing resolution 435 in relation to Namibia. The Contact Group is one organisation that can contribute to that, and so is the American-led negotiating process. It is certainly an objective that I keep firmly in mind.

§ Mr. Anderson
Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman not recognise the danger to our foreign position of being so isolated and closely identified with the oppressor, the racists and the fat cats in South Africa? Is not the essential hypocrisy of the Government's position shown by the fact that while in international forums they regularly call for the immediate and unconditional release of Nelson Mandela, should that happen tomorrow they would refuse to meet him because he is a member of the ANC?

§ Sir Geoffrey Howe
The hon. Gentleman has a capacity for over-simplifying the most complex questions. There is no doubt that the unconditional release of Nelson Mandela would be a major act of national reconciliation within South Africa, which in turn would be an important step towards a more wide-ranging and peaceful dialogue.
The hon. Gentleman must try to bear in mind that his grotesque misrepresentation of the position of the United Kingdom does nothing but harm, not only to this country's position, but to the possibility of change in South Africa.