§ 3. Mr. Flanneryasked the Paymaster General what is the total of people unemployed; how many of these are (a) women, and (b) men; and how many unemployed are under 21 years of age.
§ Mr. Kenneth ClarkeOn 10 October 1985 the number of unemployed claimants in the United Kingdom was 3,277,000, of whom 1,043,000 were women, 2,234,000 were men, and 555,000 were under 20 years of age.
§ Mr. FlanneryIs this not appalling—[Interruption.] It is obvious from the way that Tory Members are laughing that they do not think that it is. Is this situation not productive of misery and a sense of despair and hopelessness just before another Christmas? When will the Government admit that all this is due to their dogmatic and wrong policies, and that if they do not make a fundamental change, next Christmas and the Christmas after—if they are still in office—they will still be trying to explain away more and more millions of unemployed people—bigger numbers, incidentally, than those who are claiming benefit?
§ Mr. ClarkeThe situation is serious, but there are encouraging signs that it is improving. The seasonally adjusted unemployment figure has fallen for two consecutive months, and, when it fell last month, it was for the third time in five months. The rate at which new 140 jobs are being created in the British economy is now high, and the increase of new jobs over the past few years is equal to the increase in the entire European Community. The number of vacancies in our jobcentres is the highest since 1980, and the number of people being placed is going up. Therefore, we are able to tackle the most intractable problem, which is that of the long-term unemployed,. We were able to announce initiatives a fortnight age in the job start scheme, following up through job clubs and contacting the long-term unemployed because we now have some hope of being able to offer them a return to work.
§ Mr. Ralph HowellWill my right hon. and learned Friend give the House his estimate of the number of unemployed who are actively seeking work? Is he satisfied that the work test is working properly? If not, will he say what plans he has to improve it?
§ Mr. ClarkeThe last labour survey implied that some people who were registered as unemployed were not actively seeking work, but that others who were not registered as unemployed were actively seeking work. The figure is about 3 million. I agree with my hon. Friend that it is important remember that to qualify for benefit the work test should be that somebody is genuinely available for work. It is right that we should continue to enforce the long-standing rules and ensure that they are properly enforced.
§ Mr. WainwrightCan the Paymaster General confirm that, over and above the total of new jobs, there has been a net loss of 1.1 million jobs since May 1979 and that the more optimistic figures about the creation of new jobs derive from taking base lines during the recession of the 1980s?
§ Mr. ClarkeI suspect that the hon. Gentleman's first point is right. There was a great shakeout of labour in many of he uncompetitive sectors of our economy. I did not understand and therefore will have to read the hon. Gentleman's second point. I hope that he is not trying to undermine the objective assessment of the rate at which new jobs are being created. On the best independent estimates that are available to us, 670,000 new jobs have been created in the British economy since the spring of 1983. That record is unrivalled anywhere else in the European Community.
§ Mr. BudgenMay I remind my right hon. and learned Friend that his positive discrimination proposals will damage the black unemployed, since they make black people the object of resentment? Further, may I remind him that libertarians everywhere will note that there is no law to justify the pressure now being put upon employers to take into employment additional black people and that, when employers tell the Government to mind their own business, they will receive widespread support from right hon. and hon. Members who sit on the Government Benches?
§ Mr. ClarkeIf I had in mind any positive discrimination proposals, I should be concerned about my hon. Friend's strictures against them, but I am not aware that I or any of my right hon. and hon. Friends have put forward any such proposals. We are concerned about persistent unemployment among deprived minorities of all kinds and about the state of the economy, especially in the inner cities. We have to ensure that no section of our 141 community is put at a disadvantage when we take measures to improve employment. My hon. Friend's fears that the Government will take steps that incite a white backlash are probably much exaggerated.
§ Mr. PavittWill the Paymaster General consider the number of school leavers in Brent under the age of 20 who have been unable to find work for more than a year, the excellent report of the Church of England, and the survey of drug abuse in north-west London among youngsters who leave school and go on to the dole, with no possible hope of obtaining work? Is the Paymaster General unable to give any hope to youngsters in the inner cities who come straight out of school and go on to the dole?
§ Mr. ClarkeThere is nobody in the country who is not seriously concerned about the state of many of our inner city areas and about unemployment there. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman has read the report to which he referred, but it contains a number of inaccuracies, as one would expect from its rather Left-wing membership. To cite an example to those who may not yet have read it, the report candidly asserts that the only programme on which the Government have increased expediture is police expenditure in the inner cities. Spending on unemployment and training measures alone has doubled in real terms since 1979. I hope that the hon. Gentleman, who is genuinely concerned about these matters and about the social problems in his Brent constituency, will address his mind to the problems brought upon the area by Brent council. It imposed rate increases on the area which made it extremely difficult to attract new business and new employment to the borough.
§ Mr. ParrisHow many real jobs are created when the Government give £1 million to English Sewing Linited to destroy 300 jobs in my constituency and to create 300 jobs near Glasgow?
§ Mr. ClarkeI suspect that that question should be directed to the Minister responsible for the grant about which my hon. Friend complains. I shall address myself only to the generality behind the question. In all the measures that we take that are aimed at encouraging employment, we must take care that we do not simply create jobs in one place and displace jobs in another. We address ourselves to that carefully in managing the community programme and other measures for which our Department is responsible.
§ Mr. PrescottDoes the Paymaster General accept that the deplorable figures he has mentioned are but the minimum of the true level of unemployment, confirmed yet again by a recent survey in Scotswood in Newcastle which shows that seven out of 10 males are unemployed in the area? When do the Government intend to ratify the new ILO recommendation requiring Governments to accept their responsibility to achieve and maintain high employment levels, or is the 83 per cent. employment level in Britain high enough?
§ Mr. ClarkeI make no attempt to shrink from the fact that 3 million unemployed or thereabouts is a serious social problem for Britain. Frankly, I do not see the point in anybody, of any political complexion, seeking to exaggerate the figure by adding a million or two. All the steps that we are taking are designed to bring down the present total. The Government's responsibility is clear: it is to create a climate within which successful business can 142 flourish and grow and create new employment opportunities. The figures for the past two to two and a half years are extremely encouraging and show that we are suceeding. I shall study the ILO recommendation, but it sounds as though it merely confirms the Government's commitment.