HC Deb 03 December 1985 vol 88 cc147-9
11. Mr. Willie W. Hamilton

asked the Paymaster General if he will make a statement on the estimated effects on employment in (a) England and Wales and (b) Scotland of the proposals in the autumn statement.

Mr. Kenneth Clarke

The proposals in my right hon. Friend the Chancellor's autumn statement will further improve the climate for economic growth and new jobs in England and Wales, and in Scotland.

Mr. Hamilton

Why is the Minister so shy of giving any estimate of the effect on employment of the autumn statement? Now that the Government have achieved the miracle of creating more unemployment than Britain has seen since 1930, will he give a specific guarantee that, as a direct result of the autumn statement, unemployment will be lower in 12 months, or even in two years, than it is now?

Mr. Clarke

In previous answers I have referred to the encouraging growth in new jobs in the British economy, and everything that we are now doing is designed to reinforce that. The autumn statement will enable us to finance the job start scheme and the trials that we are now running in nine areas, including Dundee, which are designed to help the long-term unemployed to get back into jobs. More vacancies are being notified, more are being filled by the jobcentres and there is an expansion of employment in the economy, which enables me to give the hopeful answer that I gave.

Mr. Viggers

Does my right and learned Friend agree that much remains to be done, as shown by the fact that although there is no shortage of jobs in my constituency, many of the unemployed cannot afford to take them because of the tax and benefits structure? Does my right hon. and learned Friend also agree that subsequent financial statements should give the highest priority to ironing out those anomalies?

Mr. Clarke

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services, in his Green Paper, has put forward worthwhile proposals for consideration to open the gap between earnings in work and benefits out of work. I believe that further tax cuts, especially if concentrated on the lower paid, could do a great deal to increase the rewards for work. Recent Government initiatives, including the job start scheme, have been designed to enable people to make the transition more easily from benefit into work.

Mr. Loyden

Does the Minister accept that the Government's response to unemployment has been an abysmal failure and that they are misleading the House and the country when they argue that there are now more people in work? Unemployment relates to the percentage of people out of work, and that figure is growing. So far, Government action has failed to deal with mass unemployment, especially in the northern region.

Mr. Clarke

The figure for unemployment is not growing. With respect, the hon. Gentleman is resorting to generalisations and slogans, as most of his hon. Friends have done today. We are putting forward measures and figures which show an encouraging growth in employment.

Mr. Dickens

I welcome my right hon. and learned Friend's optimistic forecasts. Does he agree that more jobs are being created and more people are working in the United Kingdom than ever before and that in job creation we are outstripping the whole of western Europe?

Mr. Clarke

My hon. Friend is, as ever, factually completely sound. It is worth reflecting that there are over 1 million more people in work now than there were under Lord Stockton's Government of which we were all fervent supporters, and that they are all earning more money than they were under that Government. Our economy has been successful in sustaining higher levels of work and prosperity, but obviously we need to do more.

Ms. Clare Short

Will the Paymaster General take it from me that he cannot fool the people by fiddling with the figures? The autumn statement makes it clear that the Government do not expect any growth in real jobs. The only promised improvement is the introduction of more schemes. The increases in the numbers of vacancies to which he refers are community programme vacancies. He has referred to about 600,000 jobs, but there has been a decrease in full-time jobs for men and an increase in part-time, low-paid jobs for women. There has been an adjustment to the estimate of the number who are self-employed. The Minister cannot fool the people with the sort of figures that he has presented to the House. They know that unemployment is still high and is not improving.

Mr. Clarke

It is probably by the medium of written answer that we can most usefully go into the statistics. It is absurd to allege that we are fiddling the figures. The figures on which we are relying have been produced by the same statistical service that serves all Governments and all Departments objectively and well. I cannot understand the Opposition's motive in trying to discredit the figures and make the situation appear worse than it is. The Opposition should be as encouraged as we are by the obvious signs of improvement in the economy. It is becoming somewhat pointless for them to continue to try to dismiss the signs of improvement and to suggest that the situation is worse than it is.

Mr. Wainright

In view of the Paymaster General's responsibility for employment, is he not unhappy that the policies of high interest rates and a high sterling exchange rate, as confirmed by the autumn statement, are inhibiting the real expansion of the economy and, therefore, employment opportunities, especially in advanced industries?

Mr. Clarke

I hope that we all welcome the prospects of reduced interest rates, which seem currently to be quite good. I reject entirely the notion that we should devalue our currency to compensate for loss of competitiveness. That approach has failed in the past. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will consider the valid inflation figures and take comfort from the fact that a steadily falling inflation rate is one of the factors that are helping to create an optimistic outlook for the immediate future.

Mr. Nicholas Winterton

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the autumn statement would be more encouraging if the Government would say that if resources are available they will be directed, first, to raising the tax threshold and, secondly, to ensuring that British industry is not subject to unfair competition, especially the unfair practices of Japan?

Mr. Clarke

I shall refer both of those interesting suggestions to those of my right hon. Friends who are responsible for such matters. I agree with my hon. Friend that one encouraging feature is that Conservative Members are able to indulge in interesting discussions on how best to deploy tax cuts to give a further stimulus to the economy and job creation.