Engagements (Hansard, 3 December 1985)

§ Q1. Mr. Neil Hamilton
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 December.

§ The Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. John Biffen)
I have been asked to reply.
My right hon. Friend is in Luxembourg for a meeting of the European Council.

§ Mr. Hamilton
Has my right hon. Friend seen the excellent speech made by my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Mr. Dunn), the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science, last week in which he said that, in spite of the many helpful measures passed during the past six years, parents still have insufficient choice in schools and standards of achievement are still too low? Does he agree with my hon. Friend, who is supported by many Conservative Members, that the solution to the difficulties would be to move towards denationalising the education system?

§ Mr. Biffen
I agree with my hon. Friend that there is great scope for further parental influence and involvement in the running of our schools. I hope that the Education Bill, which will be presented later, will move towards that. As for progress beyond that., I agree with my hon. Friend that there will be a continuing debate about the importance of a much more robust assertion of parental involvement in our education system and the changes that may be necessary to secure that.

§ Q2. Mr. Stephen Ross
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 December.

§ Mr. Biffen
I have been asked to reply. I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

§ Mr. Ross
Will the leader of the House take this excellent opportunity to apologise to the 140 skilled members of the work force of the British Hovercraft Corporation who have been given their redundancy notices today? And we must not forget the 463 who have been given redundancy notices at Yeovil, Milton Keynes and Weston-super-Mare, all working for Westland. Does he not think it ironic that at a time when Westland is in trouble, his colleague, the Secretary of State for Defence, should be going to Europe to ask nationalised industries in Italy and France to bail out Westland, when the Government could have done much more to help?

§ Mr. Biffen
I express my regrets about the redundancies, as does every other hon. Member in the House, whether in respect of those in their own constituencies or otherwise. I understand that the hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Ashdown) would wish to be associated with those comments.
I do not believe that anyone can fault the way in which the Government have sought to promote successful and major sales of Westland helicopters to the Indian Government. If they were attended with the success which I hope will be desired throughout the House, the position of the company would be further remedied.

§ Mr. McCrindle
In the light of the sad case of Jasmine Beckford, can the Leader of the House tell me whether there are any plans to introduce legislation on child care, 151 updating the Children and Young Persons Act 1969, and once again laying responsibility on magistrates and others to emphasise the interests of the child, even if from time to time that may lead inevitably to the break-up of the family?

§ Mr. Biffen
My hon. Friend expresses a deep anxiety that will be widely shared in the light of the most tragic circumstances that have been revealed by the Blom-Cooper report. The wisest way to proceed would be to have a thorough and reflective study of the recommendations and then see what further action may be necessary on the part of the Government.

§ Mr. Kinnock
I echo the view expressed by the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr. McCrindle) and take comfort from the fact that it is a matter of concern right across the House and that there are no political differences.
May I press the right hon. Gentleman further? First, will he give an undertaking that there will be effective steps to clarify the law in so far as it affects children at risk? Secondly, will he give me an assurance that the Government will not proceed with any proposals from the Department of Education and Science to make a cut in the training and retraining provision for social workers? Can we look forward to immediate and necessary action that falls within the general requirements of the Government and their responsibility for promoting the best practice to try to ensure against a repetition of horrors such as those suffered by little Jasmine Beckford?

§ Mr. Biffen
As I have said, the findings of the Blom-Cooper report will be given immediate study by my right hon. Friends and during that study they will take up the wider issues that the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned.

§ Mr. Heathcoat-Amory
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the creation of a common market in financial services does not require any amendment of the Treaty of Rome or any enlargement of the powers of the European Assembly, and does not need us to relinquish the veto, as it is fully in line with existing commitments by member states? Will my right hon. Friend transmit to the Prime Minister our support for the stand that she is taking?

§ Mr. Biffen
In response to the first part of my hon. Friend's question, that would be my judgment.
I shall happily convey the sentiments expressed by my hon. Friend in the second part of his question.

§ Mr. Steel
Does the Leader of the House accept that we all welcome the fact that the Government will give serious and reflective study to the Blom-Cooper report, but will he convey to the Prime Minister on her return the fact that those of us who have seen the advance full text of the Church of England report on inner cities, which will be published later tonight, are appalled at the rubbishing anonymously given to it by Ministers over the weekend? Will he make it clear, on behalf of the Government, that we welcome any contribution to solving the intractable problems that come from that source?

§ Mr. Biffen
I at once repudiate entirely the proposition that the report was rubbished by Ministers over the weekend. The House would be well advised to treat the report as what it purports to be—a serious contribution to studying the problems in our city centres. We know from the words of the Bishop of Liverpool, one of the authors, that it is a substantial and carefully researched 152 report by people who know a good deal about the cities. I should like to make an open contribution to the debate by asking that that research be carried just one stage further, so that we know the estimated total public costs of the proposal and to what extent they may be offset by the abolition of mortgage interest tax relief.

§ Dr. Mawhinney
Will my right hon. Friend accept that as a member of the General Synod I would hesitate to approach him and his right hon. Friends in the Cabinet at Downing street for spiritual guidance—[Interruption] but that as a Member of the House I have no intention of seeking political guidance from the cabinet of Canterbury because, however well-intentioned it may be. it is short on reality, on history and, above all, on theology?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The same rules must apply to both sides: questions, not statements.

§ Mr. Biffen
I congratulate my hon. Friend on his perception of the limitations of what the Treasury Bench can answer. Of course he is right to entertain the anxieties that he does. I hope I may be permitted to say that the Church through the ages has sought to interest itself in social affairs, but when it does so it has to accept that it will be judged on the quality of its contribution to the argument.

§ Mr. Merlyn Rees
In view of the denigration of the authors of the report, will the Leader of the House find out from the Prime Minister why she keeps recommending to the Queen all these Marxists for appointment to bishoprics?

§ Mr. Biffen
I hope that it will not infringe the spirit of the occasion if I take the question seriously.
As to the first point about the composition of the commission, that certainly helps to explain the quality of the report. It is neither smear nor innuendo to observe that many of those people have long and distinguished careers in the public service, where they have never hesitated to indicate where the balance of their judgment lay.
As to the point about the appointment of bishops—[Interruption.] I say no, they are touching the truth—a great many words are spoken, some in mirth and some in passion. However, I hope that we will think seriously before disturbing the present relationship between the state and the Church of England.

§ Sir John Farr
May I ask my right hon. Friend for his advice in respect of some of my constituents who work for Leicester city council and who have been threatened with lack of promotion and even dismissal unless they attend a city-run racial awareness course? Does my right hon. Friend agree that that is a gross intrusion into the private lives of my constituents and a gross impertinence by the city council? What does he recommend I should tell them?

§ Mr. Biffen
The House has the opportunity of knowing of this matter, which sounds thoroughly disturbing—[HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"]. Because of the undue pressure which seems to operate. I think the whole House would very much enjoy the chance of hearing more about it. I hope that my hon. Friend is successful in bringing it before the House in an Adjournment debate.

§ Q3. Mr. Winnick
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 December.

§ Mr. Biffen
I have been asked to reply.
153 I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

§ Mr. Winnick
Is the Leader of the House aware that when people see Ministers trying to smear and discredit the Church of England report they are reminded instantly of Nixon-style politics? Does not the report largely bear out the words of the right hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Mr. Heath)—that no matter what publicity or propaganda there may be, however sleek, there is no evidence whatsoever that Britain is booming?

§ Mr. Biffen
I am not among the most devoted fans of the commission's report, but even I would say that it needed better friends than the hon. Gentleman. The report is seeking a serious and sustained debate about how we might use our resources in city centres to mitigate the evident social problems that exist, and to what extent that can be a partnership between private initiative and collective responsibility. It would be better if we conducted it in those terms.

§ Mr. Spencer
Does my right hon. Friend welcome the Transport and General Workers Union's leaders' late conversion to democracy? Taken with the fact that we have had fewer strikes than for many years, does he agree that in industrial relations the Tory party has got it right?

§ Mr. Biffen
My hon. Friend makes an admirable point. The House has lived under the shadow of the belief that trade union legislation passed by this place and receiving the Royal Assent was, none the less, rendered ineffective 154 by the friends of the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner). We are now seeing that that is nonsense and that a triumph of moderation has been secured by this Government and their legislation.

§ Q4. Mr. Ron Davies
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 December.

§ Mr. Biffen
I have been asked to reply.
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

§ Mr. Davies
Will the Leader of the House draw to the attention of the Prime Minister the position that exists in the Mid Glamorgan area health authority, which has the third largest waiting list in England and Wales and has been forced to make cuts of £5.5 million, resulting in hospital and ward closures and the sacking of 240 health workers? What advice will he give to the Prime Minister if the Shropshire area health authority, which has the second highest waiting list, is forced into making similar cuts?

§ Mr. Biffen
I should, out of county patriotism and intellectual conviction, point out that the Shropshire area health authority is run increasingly efficiently as a result of the application of general management techniques. As to the wider question that the hon. Gentleman asks, I noted his contribution to the debate on the Queen's Speech and the subsequent early-day motion. I shall draw the attention of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to the matter, as he requests.