§ Ql. Mr. Winnickasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 25 April.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.
§ Mr. WinnickIs it not time that the right hon. Lady came off the fence and said that the British Government will be represented in Moscow for the celebrations there of the 40th anniversary of the end of the war? While she is about it, will she tell the United States President that for him to visit a cemetery in Germany where SS mass murderers are buried is deeply insulting and offensive to the memory of their victims, and is no less insulting and offensive to all those who fought in the last war to destroy Nazi tyranny?
§ The Prime MinisterWe shall probably be represented in Moscow by Her Majesty's ambassador. With regard to the hon. Gentleman's comments about the German cemetery, I am not responsible for the actions of the United States, but I have considerable sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman has said.
§ Mr. Ian LloydMy right hon. Friend will recall that in his much discussed speech on the strategic defence initiative the Foreign Secretary disinterred the significant maxim that political decisions should not be pre-empted by the onward march of technology. Since, when we look back over the past 25 years, we find that so many major decisions, not least on the problem of unemployment, have been pre-empted by technological or scientific advance, which has been underestimated, has not my right hon. and learned Friend the Foreign Secretary made an unanswerable case for the installation of an office of technology assessment here to serve this Parliament in exactly the same way as such an institution serves the Congress of the United States?
§ The Prime MinisterI did not read my right hon. and learned Friend's speech in quite that way, but I am not sure that such an office would advance our cause very much. My hon. Friend is absolutely right—one cannot stop the march of technology. We have to use it, adapt it and indeed embrace it if we are to keep in the forefront of industry and in the forefront of events.
§ Mr. KinnockWill the Prime Minister tell us precisely why she decided that this morning's Cabinet meeting should not even discuss the proposals by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Services to end the state earnings related pension scheme, to get rid of family income supplement, not to uprate child benefit and to make many other changes which amount to a retrograde step for poor people and, indeed, for many people on average incomes?
§ The Prime MinisterI am sure the right hon. Gentleman will agree that it would be better not to reach conclusions before discussions have taken place, which is what he seems to have done.
§ Mr. KinnockI agree that it is always wise to be cautious in these matters, but, as this review has been taking place for 13 months, is it not the case that next week's county council elections have far more to do with the delay than anything else? If the Prime Minister—as the official statement says — is tying up a few loose ends, around which necks will she tie them?
§ The Prime MinisterUnlike the Opposition, we discuss before we reach conclusions. Unlike the Opposition, on social security matters we like the details to be worked out before they are made public.
§ Mr. MacleanWhat message will my right hon. Friend give to the ratepayers and electors of Cumbria, where, during the past four years, a Labour-controlled council has squandered its reserves and is threathening a rate increase next year of 70 per cent. to finance its profligate spending?
§ The Prime MinisterAs my hon. Friend knows, Conservative county councils have put up their rates by far less than have Labour county councils, and that is a good message for next Thursday.
§ Mr. WrigglesworthIs the Prime Minister aware that the Transport and General Workers Union is the largest union in the country and that its general secretary is one of the most influential people around? As the Leader of the Opposition is a member of that union and is sponsored in the House—
Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. We are disscussing the Prime Minister's official engagements for today. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will direct his question to that matter.
§ Mr. WrigglesworthAs the national executive committee of the TGWU is today considering whether a re-run of the ballot will be held, will the Prime Minister, during the course of her day, encourage the Leader of the Opposition to break his craven silence on this matter, which is reminiscent of his silence on the miners' dispute, and join us in hoping that the TGWU—
Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. I hope that hon. Members will address themselves to matters for which the Prime Minister is responsible.
§ Mr. WrigglesworthI am asking the Prime Minister whether she will today join us in welcoming a re-ballot for the general secretaryship of the TGWU, and asking that it should be run under independent supervision. Does the right hon. Lady agree with that?
§ The Prime MinisterI am not responsible for many of the things that the hon. Gentleman mentioned. The excellent changes in ballot rules, with which I am sure he will agree, come into force this October, under legislation passed by this Government.
§ Q2. Dr. McDonaldasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 25 April.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Lady to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Dr. McDonaldHow can the Prime Minister expect the service sector to provide jobs when Lord Weinstock has said that there will be nothing for the service sector to service, given that the right hon. Lady's sado-monetarist economic policies have cut manufacturing investment by one-third and output by 9 per cent. since 1979, and created a trade deficit in manufactured goods of more than £3 billion last year? When will she listen to those with more experience in successful business than herself and change her policies?
§ The Prime MinisterIn fact, as distinct from opinion, manufacturing employment has been falling since 1966. Indeed, the shift from manufacturing to service employment has already taken place and is entirely compatible with an expanding economy.
As Lord Weinstock is very well aware, it is possible to have a flourishing manufacturing sector even though it employs fewer people. Indeed, he has occasion to know that the General Electric Company's profits were £670 million last year, despite 15,000 redundancies during the past three years.
There will inevitably be fewer people employed by the current amount of manufacturing. We need a flourishing manufacturing sector, but that is not related specifically to the number or people employed in it, as Lord Weinstock is very well aware.
§ Mr. Ralph HowellIs my right hon. Friend aware that, despite all the efforts that the Government have made, the poverty trap and the unemployment trap are worse than ever, now embracing nearly half the working population? Will she assure the House that the social security review and subsequent measures will be combined with a taxation review to create an overall coordinated system whereby 988 nobody who pays tax receives benefit, and vice versa, to try to ensure that everybody is better off working than not working?
§ The Prime MinisterI have great sympathy with my hon. Friend's objective that everyone should be better off when working than when not working and receiving supplementary benefit. He will be well aware that that was the purpose of the Budget brought in by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which will raise threshholds by twice the amount warranted by the inflation rate, and reduce the rate of national insurance contributions, particularly for the lower paid.
§ Mr. Donald StewartWhat action does the Prime Minister intend to take following the criticism in the annual report by the Civil Service Commission of the recruitment of highly paid managers from private industry at a time when the service is rent by dissatisfaction over low pay?
§ The Prime MinisterThe detailed information in the Civil Service annual report shows a reasonably satisfactory picture overall, although there are specific areas of difficulty. That experience is, of course, often shared by other employers. I understand that the 4.9 per cent. pay offer has been accepted by one of the Civil Service unions.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. YeoIs my right hon. Friend aware of the widespread concern about the long-term cost of the state earnings related pension scheme? As this scheme brings virtually no benefit to workers on two thirds or less of average earnings, does my right hon. Friend agree that if the Government are to succeed in their aim of ensuring that the social security budget is used to help those in real need the best thing that the Government can do is to terminate the scheme and apply the savings to increase the basic state pension?
§ The Prime MinisterAs my hon. Friend is aware, there are problems with any scheme which is run on a pay-as-you-go basis under which the contributions now are used for benefits given now, alhough many people think that they are accumulated for benefits to be provided later. I shall, of course, take my hon. Friend's views into account when the matter is discussed.
§ Mr. Ron LewisWill the Prime Minister today recall her early upbringing, her Sunday school days and her father's insistence that the fourth commandment should be honoured? Is she, as the Head of the Government, going to besmirch her father's memory by bringing in legislation that will help to consign the sanctity of the Sabbath day to the scrapheap?
§ The Prime MinisterI congratulate the hon. Member on the ingenuity of his question. That is a matter for the House. The report will be brought before the House for debate and the several matters, including the jobs which would be created by Sunday opening, will be taken into account. I hope that the hon. Gentleman might even think that that is a relevant factor to be taken into account.
§ Mr. CormackMay we take it from the Prime Minister's last reply that there will definitely be a free vote when the Government introduce legislation on Sunday trading?
§ The Prime MinisterThat we shall decide nearer the time, but I hope that my hon. Friend will consider the report and all its consequences very carefully.
§ Mr. James HamiltonThe Prime Minister continually boasts about the success of her monetarist policies. Is she aware that redundancies in two more factories in my constituency have been revealed to me this week? Bearing in mind that revaluation in Scotland and the fact that the 990 increases in rates will cause further closures and redundancies, will she tell the House what she intends to do about the situation, before she tells the Tory party conference in Perth?
§ The Prime MinisterWith regard to further redundancies, especially in manufacturing industry, the hon. Gentleman will be aware that we can continue to increase production with fewer people employed. That is one of the problems of a technological revolution. As for the rate burden, the hon. Gentleman will be aware that part of the increase is due to the very high spending of Labour councils, which are much higher spenders than Conservative councils.